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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66426: Aug 30th 2022 at 5:50:33 PM

[up][up][up] Funny you say that, because Frontiers has actually brought it back.

Speaking of, there's a been a whole bunch of Frontiers news dropping in the last week or so. So without further ado, here's a dump...

Japanese Special Edition

Sky Sanctuary footage

Sonic Stadium's Demo impressions

Different levels of control for the player

Controller Layout

The Drop Dash in action.

Sonic's first encounter with one of the Titans.

Ares Island gameplay

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#66427: Aug 30th 2022 at 6:09:30 PM

*watching gameplay video* what the fuck am I looking at...?

Almost at the end and Cyberspace continues to look like the only engaging levels in the game. And even then there are apparently no enemies, so...

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Aug 30th 2022 at 9:12:30 AM

i'm tired, my friend
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66428: Aug 30th 2022 at 6:14:19 PM

Would you believe the impressions have been overall positive across the board?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#66429: Aug 30th 2022 at 6:39:37 PM

I'll admit to being surprised by the like-to-dislike ratios on the youtube videos I've watched.

But man, I just don't think I'm here for an open world Sonic game. I didn't even go googly-eyed at all those 3D fan-made proof-of-concepts, but at least they had a point A and B. Frontiers, though? What's even the goal in these levels?

But I guess it's a me thing. I know what I want in Sonic games, and it's not what most of the game is offering.

I'll still give it a shot provided the price isn't ridiculous, but so far I'm not impressed from a gameplay standpoint.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Aug 30th 2022 at 9:41:23 AM

i'm tired, my friend
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66430: Aug 30th 2022 at 6:46:23 PM

This feels like its going to be a similar case to Sonic Colors; a game that is liked by the mainstream and casual crowd, but lukewarm within the hardcore fanbase.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Kiobi20 Since: Sep, 2016
#66431: Aug 30th 2022 at 7:01:57 PM

[up] At this point I feel the hardcore fanbase often acts as if they don't like anything anymore.

Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#66432: Aug 30th 2022 at 7:19:22 PM

A lot of hardcore people that have tried it like it quite a lot. The combat is quite good apparently.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#66433: Aug 30th 2022 at 7:49:52 PM

Ah, so general reaction has been positive.

Frontiers doing good work. Probably gonna be better than Unleashed/Colors/Generations/Lost World/Forces.

Edited by FOFD on Aug 30th 2022 at 10:50:18 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#66434: Aug 30th 2022 at 8:45:06 PM

Yeah, seeing the open world sections they look a lot less rough than they initially seemed, and I'm totally down for them. The combat especially looks amazing.

All I want to see now is more information about the open world segments. Having great combat and shorter scale bonus levels is fine, but we need reassurance that the genre that makes up the bulk of the game isn't going to be repetitive.

The fanbase response to this game has been a freaking roller coaster, but as far as I can tell [up][up][up] is right: from what I can see the response has evened out to positive at the moment. The hardcore fans aren't rejecting it (any more) as of yet.

Also, from general experience Colors isn't rejected by the hardcore fanbase as a whole. Just the Adventure fans specifically, and even then mostly just the ones who can't stand the genre shift and choose to blame Colors for the existence of the subsequent games.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 30th 2022 at 8:59:58 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66435: Aug 30th 2022 at 8:58:18 PM

I feel like most Classic fans who praise Colors do so less on its own merits, and more so as a dig at the early 3D games that gradually alienated them from the series. So Colors actively removing all of that stuff they didn't like is "a win".

Because its notable to me that some of these same people I speak to on Sonic Retro specifically, are trepidations about Frontiers specifically because its returning to that more experimental style of said early 3D game that they didn't care for.

So...interpret that however you wish.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#66436: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:01:18 PM

Yeah... I'm not sure I buy "people who say they like the game don't really like it, they just say so to spite other fans" as an explanation for the game's popularity and positive reception, no.

Especially since Colors positive impact with both the general audience and the fanbase is fairly well documented.

Generally, I find that the portion of the fanbase who hates Colors now is the same portion of the fanbase that's always hated the game, it's just that time moved on, the game became old and generally didn't get much word of mouth any more (until the buggy mess that was the Ultimate version - but even then, the sheer positivity when that edition was announced is telling: it and Generations are still regarded at the highpoint of the series' current era), so where they were once a very small voice among many, now they're the only voice in town who still cares to talk about it. But they've always been a Vocal Minority - not really representative of the fanbase as a whole.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 30th 2022 at 9:07:33 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66437: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:06:45 PM

I'm only going by own experiences is all. But I can't really forget how everyone treated Colors as some masterful achievement for the series for "being the first 3D Sonic game that doesn't suck" That was literally the running theme going on at the time.

That's not saying the game isn't good mind you, but I do think it says a lot people were using it to essentially to discredit every 3D game before it.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Aug 30th 2022 at 12:09:04 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#66438: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:08:23 PM

I dunno. The more you talk about the other place you go to discuss about Sonic, the more I get the impression it's a particularly negative sound chamber of specific fans who only like a very particular thing and aren't very accepting of other things.

Every time to bring something they believe up seemingly as how the fanbase as a whole thinks (invariably about how they hate something), it always seems to get responded to with "no, that's an extreme outlier, and the big picture's very different."

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 30th 2022 at 9:10:42 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#66439: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:09:36 PM

if it's the same place i'm thinking of it kinda was tbh

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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66440: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:10:44 PM

[up][up]This wasn't just one place lol. This was multiple sites at the time.

This was a particularly popular image when Colors was close to coming out

[up]It wasn't SSMB, I wasn't part of that site at the time.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Aug 30th 2022 at 12:11:34 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#66441: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:11:45 PM

The image of Sonic breaking the Sonic Cycle? Um, yeah. That was a good thing.

This wasn't just one place lol. This was multiple sites at the time.

I mean, I guess. It just that you tend to exclusively claims the perspective of Adventure fans who don't like anything but Adventure as what the "fanbase" as a whole thinks, when that's just the specific perspective of a specific demographic.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 30th 2022 at 9:13:30 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66442: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:13:28 PM

You're missing the point. I'm not saying that Colors isn't a good game, I'm saying the praise for the game was generally used to discredit every game prior to it.

That's all.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#66443: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:14:28 PM

Um, no. That's not what the image was about either. I was there. I remember the memes.

It was a celebration of the games being unambiguously good, not the result of people ignoring the game in favor of insulting other games.

It's just very weird logic to claim "people claimed that Colors was better than the games before it, which means that what they really wanted to do was insult the games before it and didn't actually care about." People don't purchase, play and enjoy games for hours for no reason than to spite other games, that's insane.

Rather than just... end the sentence where it logically should: at "people thought the game was better than the ones that came before it."

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 30th 2022 at 9:20:39 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66444: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:15:42 PM

Then I guess we just had two different types of experiences, and I'll leave it at that. I don't really know how else to explain this.

t's just very weird logic to claim "people claimed that Colors was better than the games before it, which means that what they really wanted to do was insult the games before it and didn't actually care about."

Rather than just... end the sentence where it logically should: at "people thought the game was better than the ones that came before it."

What's the weird part? Sonic Colors came out at a time when the general opinion of Sonic games was that they were garbage.

So of course a game that cut out the more controversial elements and streamlined the parts that people liked, was going to be more popular.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Aug 30th 2022 at 12:19:34 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#66445: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:18:51 PM

This doesn't feel like a different experience. This feels like a really odd attempt to claim that a popular game wasn't actually popular after all. Like I said, the logic is downright weird.

But... well... it was. The fanbase liked it. The general audience liked it. The gameplay was lauded, it was well received and sold well.

There were memes. There was a whole lets play culture. There was positive buzz in the Sonic fanbase for what feels like forever. For a short few years between Colors and Generations, the fanbase was generally a decently optimistic place to be. Not great, but certainly in a better state than it was before or afterwards.

Any narrative beyond the game only being unpopular with a very specific vocal minority is blatantly false. Especially since it's only really that vocal minority you see out there trying to claim anything different.

What's the weird part?

For one, it's blatantly arbitrary. But more importantly:

People don't purchase, play and enjoy games for hours for no reason than to spite other games, that's insane.

Over in the Marvel film thread, Tobias Drake has a point he makes about Venom which is applicable here: movies don't make millions of dollars because people only watched them ironically. People tend to claim Venom wasn't really popular and didn't actually do well, but... well... history vehemently disagrees.

It's the same here. "People only liked this game ironically" is a something that becomes increasingly less justifiable the bigger and more evident a game's positive buzz becomes, and Colors' was fairly big.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 30th 2022 at 9:24:52 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66446: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:23:54 PM

I...never said that Colors wasn't popular? I feel like you're trying to twist my words to say something else?

Like...I said Colors was popular, I don't ever remember saying that it wasn't. So I don't know why you're trying to say that I'm trying to discredit the game, if I'm agreeing with you that the game was popular?

I'm not discrediting the game by acknowledging the context surrounding the game's release that I was experiencing at the time, and I don't know why you're trying to imply that. I literally bought Colors Ultimate because I actually do like the game and wanted to experience it again...

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Aug 30th 2022 at 12:26:07 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#66447: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:26:43 PM

Specifically, you said this:

I feel like most Classic fans who praise Colors do so less on its own merits, and more so as a dig at the early 3D games that gradually alienated them from the series. So Colors actively removing all of that stuff they didn't like is "a win".

Claiming, paraphrased, that fans who liked the game didn't actually like it (or in short, it wasn't legitimately popular with the fanbase), but only gravitated towards it because it was a vehicle to hate other games. If you said that but it was meant to be taken entirely differently, then I apologize, but it certainly doesn't read any way other way.

Hence all the pointing out that that claim makes absolutely no sense, and that going by the game's actual positive buzz claiming that its popularity with the fanbase was given ironically is not particularly justifiable.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 30th 2022 at 9:30:09 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66448: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:30:11 PM

Classic fans who had specifically fallen out of favor with Sonic due to the earlier 3D games, that I specifically mentioned.

I did not say everyone, so I don't how you would interpret that to think I was speaking about everyone. Obviously Colors was popular, I don't ever remember saying otherwise. If you got confused by that statement then I apologize, but no I was not speaking about the general reception of Colors as a whole when I said that.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Aug 30th 2022 at 12:31:04 PM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#66449: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:31:11 PM

Classic fans who had specifically fallen out of favor with Sonic due to the earlier 3D games, that I specifically mentioned.

Shifting the assumption to a specific group doesn't make it any less of an assumption, nor does it make the claim make any more sense than it does.

If your claim all along was that "people who already hated the modern fanbase continued to hate it," then... yeah. If all along you meant that a Vocal Minority was using the game to talk smack about other games, then you went about it a very poor way.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 30th 2022 at 9:32:48 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66450: Aug 30th 2022 at 9:32:47 PM

Ok...what are you trying to accomplish here, because I am genuinely confused now and I have no idea what is it you're after.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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