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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#65851: Jul 17th 2022 at 1:46:44 PM

Coins only let you retry special stages...?

In Sonic they're called rings though.

Edited by randomness4 on Jul 17th 2022 at 4:47:09 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Cibryll Lilia (Hero Without a Class) from Lightning Crest (she/her) Since: Feb, 2022 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Lilia (Hero Without a Class)
#65852: Jul 17th 2022 at 1:48:10 PM

I'd prefer an option for whether or not there should be lives.
I mean. Best of both worlds, or something, right?

Title's supposed to link to Hero Without a Class: Who Even Needs Skills?! but that just breaks the title instead. -_-
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#65853: Jul 17th 2022 at 1:52:02 PM

Coins let you retry special stages and work as a neat in-game currency in a similar vein to rings.

Lifes? Yeah, running out of lives versus a boss and having to restart the ZONE is bullcrap. Nah, good riddance.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#65854: Jul 17th 2022 at 2:05:18 PM

It really only matters if the level is long.

I can't complain in earnest if the level is like even as long as a Sonic 1 or 2 length.

—-

Then again, I'm not playing games to completion...so restarting a level ultimately doesn't ruin my experience.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#65856: Jul 17th 2022 at 2:34:27 PM

I do like the idea of having separate boss zones(not the way Sonic 1 did it, though) to make the lives system far less bothersome. Saving is good too.

I'm not used to the non-lives system myself, but I do feel Sonic Adventure 2's way of having the zones split was usually good at it(I think every boss was separate as a level, but I don't remember it that well. Been a long time since I've played).

Shadow?
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#65857: Jul 17th 2022 at 3:37:29 PM

Do you mean Sonic Heroes? I'm a little confused what you're referring to about Adventure 2. All the levels and bosses are seperate things.

Edited by diddyknux on Jul 17th 2022 at 5:40:56 AM

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#65858: Jul 17th 2022 at 3:52:26 PM

No, I fully meant Sonic Adventure 2. The bosses are separate "levels" too. Biolizard is the only one I can't remember if it was or not otherwise, though. I know the final boss was.

Shadow?
mstorzil Crimson Helios Since: Nov, 2019
Crimson Helios
#65859: Jul 17th 2022 at 4:16:34 PM

I swear, levels like Eggmanland make me question if games should even have lives. If it weren't for the fact there's an extra life after most of the checkpoints, I would've probably game overed on that stage more times than I care to count. And that level is around 45 minutes long. I can beat the final boss in just 9. And that boss has 2 sections that you have to repeat 3 times each with each time increasing the difficulty. I swear, not even Sonic 06's End of the World frustrates me this much. I swear, Eggmanland is the sole reason I refuse to collect every collectible in the game. Even for final level standards that level is a gigantic mess, and don't get me started on the roller coaster section. Thank goodness 100% Rise of Lyric was nowhere near as hair pulling. And while I did manage to 100% Forces (with the exception of missions, though I'm pretty sure you get missions literally non stop), those Classic stages were something. Go figure, the character that I have very little fun playing in his own games makes me feel the same way even when in a Modern game. How ironic though that Lost World 3DS, which plays more like a Classic game than any other game besides the ones with Classic Sonic in them, probably has my favorite gameplay of the 2010s modern games. Then again, it does play pretty differently from most of the others.

No rain could douse the flames that burn within me!
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#65860: Jul 17th 2022 at 5:30:11 PM

IIRC, if you actually do the hotdog mission, since you have to not die at all anyway, you'll find that it doesn't take anywhere close to the time it gives you even on the third level.

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diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#65861: Jul 17th 2022 at 5:58:53 PM

I do kind of like the aesthetic progression of Eggmanland, though. As you go through, it gets less theme-park like and more factory-like.

mstorzil Crimson Helios Since: Nov, 2019
Crimson Helios
#65862: Jul 17th 2022 at 8:09:06 PM

That, aside from the music, is about the only praise I'll give Eggmanland. Oh, I guess the switching between hedgehog and werehog mid level was a neat concept as well. At the very least what followed was the best final (and overall) boss in the series, so it's not like nothing good came out of it.

Edited by mstorzil on Jul 17th 2022 at 8:37:26 AM

No rain could douse the flames that burn within me!
Numbuh1234 Since: Apr, 2014
#65863: Jul 18th 2022 at 12:56:54 AM

This franchise has very solidly gone past the need for a lives system, frankly.

In SA 2 the ranking system was introduced, which did the following:

  • Made the score system have a tangible purpose
  • Made collecting more than 1 ring have a tangible purpose
  • Made being quick have a tangible purpose (even if imo this factor's undertuned in most games)
  • Made getting good at the game have an actual incentive beyond being forced to replay earlier content
  • Made it so that there's incentive beyond just simply getting through each level in order to specifically master them.
  • Made the prospect of getting good optional, which means more people can just play the game without having to deal with their progress being undone.

There's not a single other purpose I can even think of for lives in Sonic games, and tbh I wonder how long it's going to be until there's experimentation with ranks in classic styled Sonic games.

Edited by Numbuh1234 on Jul 19th 2022 at 12:27:35 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#65864: Jul 18th 2022 at 1:32:02 AM

The ranking system made it so...replay the levels for a ranked score, instead of just a score.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#65865: Jul 18th 2022 at 2:00:36 AM

Origins has ranks in mission mode. Still, basing ranks JUST on time is IMO suboptimal.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#65866: Jul 18th 2022 at 2:41:53 AM

Playing the games as a kid, and not being a completionist or focused on the "Get good/side mission" stuff, I've never had a problem with the lives system. Mechanically Sonic games haven't been difficult for me since I was a kid - the last times I genuinely struggled with a Sonic game was against the Biolizard in Adventure 2 and later that Planet Wisp stage in Generations - and even then having lives and restarting things was rarely frustrating.

Its like "Classic v Modern" all over again; I see no point in trying to focus on one side or the other. The franchise would be better off with both rather than trying to erase one style.

You're a bit late then, because they were already gone in Forces.

Sonic Forces was also coincidentally a polarizing game that distanced me from the franchise but that's not really about the lives/here or there.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#65867: Jul 18th 2022 at 2:46:43 AM

[up]Yeah, my point was more the change has already started and is not likely to be one of the things reverted.

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FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#65868: Jul 18th 2022 at 2:51:03 AM

I would be disappointed if lives were completely gone but if things are actually moving forward the way Frontiers implies they are, I'll be fine with that transition.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#65869: Jul 18th 2022 at 2:54:14 AM

Also, I just gotta say "they haven't given me any trouble" is kinda gatekeepy.

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FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#65870: Jul 18th 2022 at 3:03:38 AM

...or its a statement of fact that "you're saying this thing I like is problematic but its never been problematic for me."

People are allowed to like something and not want it removed without social stigma.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#65871: Jul 18th 2022 at 3:30:04 AM

[up]...what. You're literally asking for a feature that would limit some players' ability to complete games.

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#65872: Jul 18th 2022 at 4:04:47 AM

The lives system does that now...

People only want to play a game once, anyway.

They have too many other games that they gotta get to.

Edited by randomness4 on Jul 18th 2022 at 7:05:26 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#65873: Jul 18th 2022 at 6:00:31 AM

I do kind of miss when rankings were based on more than just time. That said, even when your total score was what mattered, time bonus was still usually one of your biggest earners, so speed was still king.

Also, I forget which Sonic game it is, but isn't there one where if you take too long to finish the level, the game will just stop giving you points for anything?

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#65874: Jul 18th 2022 at 6:34:01 AM

All of them...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
mstorzil Crimson Helios Since: Nov, 2019
Crimson Helios
#65875: Jul 18th 2022 at 9:27:06 AM

I believe Colors was the only game to do that. Speaking of, that game's ranking system is a gigantic mess. Most of the points come from the red rings, and most of them can be really annoying to find. Seriously, you could go through an entire level as fast as possible killing every enemy in sight, holding on to every single ring you find, and using the wisps as frequently as possible, all without dying, and at best you'll probably get a B Rank in the later stages all because you missed a couple red rings. Not even Devil May Cry 5's ranking system on the higher difficulties is that strict.

No rain could douse the flames that burn within me!

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