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TheConductor Since: Jan, 2011
#1: Feb 19th 2011 at 7:01:22 AM

In 1984, Spider-Man discovered an organic, black suit to replace his old one. He eventually discovered -thanks to the Fantastic Four- that it was a parasite that wanted to permanently bond with him as it had fallen in love with him. Using a church bell, Spider-Man removed the Symbiote. Like a jealous ex, it quickly bonded with Eddie Brock -another hater of Spider-Man- creating Venom, someone who is the complete antithesis of Spider-Man.

Over the years Venom has been an insanely popular character, having several comics of his very own and over the years the Symbiote has bonded with several other characters and it's most recent host is long time Spider-Fan; Flash Thompson.

Flash will be staring as the new, government sanctioned Venom in the new series starting in March 2011. But we've already had a taste of the series, both in the preview at the back of Amazing Spider-Man #654 and an entire issue devoted to him in Amazing Spider-Man #654.1. So far, I think it's excellent and I can't WAIT to see how the series turns out (my guess, Flash gets hooked on the Symbiote and becomes a Lethal Protector, like Brock was in the '90s).

AtomJames I need a drink Since: Apr, 2010
I need a drink
#2: Feb 19th 2011 at 7:07:15 AM

Now thats interesting! I actually like the idea that the symbiote has a) bonded with a spider-man fan and b) the guy who used to torture Peter in High School. That is brilliant. But another Lethal Protector though? I dunno. I'm willing to accept it, but making a stalker with a chip on his shoulder a hero doesn't really sit well with me. Again, I'm willing to give it a chance.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.
Geostomp In the name of the POWER, I will punish you! from Arkansas, USA Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
In the name of the POWER, I will punish you!
#3: Feb 19th 2011 at 7:11:40 AM

Though the idea is interesting, it's almost certain to end in disaster. Sure, we've seen a couple of good symbiote pairs, but this is Venom we're talking about.

The big, slobbering monster has become too iconic to stay well-behaved for too long.

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" Futurama, Godfellas
TheConductor Since: Jan, 2011
#4: Feb 19th 2011 at 7:28:42 AM

^Well on his second mission, Flash lost control and went full on Venom mode.

AtomJames I need a drink Since: Apr, 2010
I need a drink
#5: Feb 19th 2011 at 7:33:05 AM

I don't know why, but reading that instantly brought this to mind...I think I like that.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#6: Feb 19th 2011 at 8:14:45 AM

it had fallen in love with him
Really? that was the reason for everything? Dear lord, it all makes sense now, I was always somewhat confused about the symbiote's thing for him.

This actually seems like an interesting concept and when it gets bound into a trade I'll most certainly look into it.

The Blog The Art
NateTheGreat Since: Jan, 2001
#7: Feb 19th 2011 at 10:23:26 AM

I'm not really current with current Spider-Lore (besides the One More Day fiasco, of course), so I'm wondering: Is Eddie Brock still running around as Anti-Venom?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#9: Feb 20th 2011 at 6:13:42 AM

^^^ Yeah, that's the reason. I don't remember how explicit it was in the comics, but Venom acts the way he does because he's basically a spurned lover. From the symbiote's perspective, Peter's rejection of it was a spontaneous and extremely heart-rending betrayal. It's hurt and it's lashing out because it's the only way it has to deal with the pain, but ultimately, it would take him back in a second if he asked it to.

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TheConductor Since: Jan, 2011
#10: Feb 20th 2011 at 7:16:54 AM

^ In fact, in the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon, Peter does just that. In order to beat Venom, Peter tells the Symbiote that he wants it back and it just slides off of Eddie and heads straight back to Spider-Man.

ManwiththePlan Since: Dec, 2009
#11: Feb 20th 2011 at 12:02:00 PM

I'm not too sure about this: with these comics, good ideas can often be spoiled by bad execution. Venom in and of himself is a prime example. His creator originally wrote him as an Ax-Crazy psychopathic stalker who gleefully revelled in brutality and evil though he deluded himself into thinking he was "protecting innocence." Eddie Brock (who was never a compelling character) was planned to be killed off eventually and the symbiote would make somebody else Venom. And so on and so on. But when Marvel saw just how immensely popular Venom had become, they pushed for Venom to become a NintiesAntiHero in all his appearances past his second one until he became the lame, lame "lethal protector" that he's been for years now. That it took so long for Eddie to finally lose the identity speaks volumes of how far Venom has fallen. For me, Venom and Eddie have fared better in adaptations.

The Peter/Spider-Man hating Symbiote bonding with a Spidey fanboy is a very interesting idea but if it goes wrong, I won't be surprised.

edited 20th Feb '11 12:02:22 PM by ManwiththePlan

Nemo Since: Jan, 2001
#12: Feb 20th 2011 at 12:25:38 PM

At The Conductor: Yeah, that's also how Peter beat Venom the second time they fought in the comics- Spidey consulted with a psychologist supporting-character (who hasn't appeared in years, but that's par for the course in Marvel), who expliclty pointed out the "spurned lover analogy". During the climatic fight with Venom, Peter removed his costume, and offered himself to the symbiote, which immediatley tired to leave Brock to bond with him. However, the symbiote's bond with Brock was too hard to break, and the strain caused Venom to pass out.

This is rendered Narm by the fact that Peter and Brock conclude said final battle entirely in their boxer shorts- hard to have a dramatic, climatic duel in underoos. :)

Snarky_Hero Since: Feb, 2010
#13: Feb 23rd 2011 at 2:29:03 PM

Call me crazy but I actually LIKE Eddie Brock and the whole "Lethal Protector" angle. It made a weird sort of sense to me. Eddie Brock is a broken man, he has faith issues, daddy issues, and is all around a really screwed up, mentally unstable sad sack of a human being. Then once his world comes crashing down (The whole Sin Eater thing)in his darkest hour the symbiote appears. Suddenly Eddie has everything he ever wanted; power, strength, and the ability to finally demand respect. He sees Spider-Man as a monster, a vilian that needs to be destroyed.

At the same time, he has that desire to be loved, wanted, a desire also shared by the Symbiote. So together they fight crime, albeit in a brutal fashion while also attempting to bring down Spidey whenever they can. I don't know, that's just the Venom interpretation I always liked. My grievances with the current state of Marvel comics could fill a book so I'll just leave it at that.

Heh..
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#14: Feb 23rd 2011 at 3:47:25 PM

[up] i'm with you, though it's mostly because my strongest impression of Venom was from a PS 1/N64 really good spider-man game where Venom was out against Spidey because he thought spider-man stole something ad then halfway through the game he's a none-too bright goofy guy just doing his best to do good. I mean He asks for Captain America's autograph at the end of the game! How can you not love that?

The Blog The Art
MEPT72 Vote is No from Boston, MA Since: Sep, 2009
Vote is No
#15: Feb 23rd 2011 at 7:06:17 PM

When done right Venom can be kinda like Deadpool in that they're both whacky violent characters. Both can be done really poorly. When done with humor Venom has a good mix of being a conflicted guy trying to be a hero but not really being the type for it, being crazy enough to do and say anything and powerful enough to get away with crazy shit.

Problem is he's often not written that way and is instead usually in pure monster mode or dumb anti-hero.

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rbx5 Rbx5 Since: Jan, 2001
Rbx5
#16: Feb 25th 2011 at 2:20:46 PM

Honestly, I'm more interested in what happens to Mac Gargan after this. Will he become Scorpion again? Maybe give him a happy ending? Either one sounds good, as long as they don't kill him (and if they do, they better do it well).

I'll turn your neocortex into a flowerpot!
DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#17: Feb 25th 2011 at 9:10:55 PM

Problem is he's often not written that way and is instead usually in pure monster mode or dumb anti-hero.
Which is why I love David Michelinie's Venom stories during his run on Amazing Spider-Man. He struck a nice balance between the two extremes (then again, he was the one who created him).

He showed that while his primary objective is to kill Spider-Man, he doesn't want anyone else hurt. Like when he expresses regret over killing a security guard in his escape from the Vault, but doesn't dwell on it too much. Or when he saves a baby from certain death, then goes back to tormenting Spidey.

Jhiday (Don’t ask)
#18: Feb 26th 2011 at 6:07:41 AM

^^ Mac Gargan has already been put back into an upgraded Scorpion suit. For details, read Amazing Spider-Man #650-654.

ManwiththePlan Since: Dec, 2009
#19: Feb 26th 2011 at 7:54:19 PM

He showed that while his primary objective is to kill Spider-Man, he doesn't want anyone else hurt. Like when he expresses regret over killing a security guard in his escape from the Vault, but doesn't dwell on it too much. Or when he saves a baby from certain death, then goes back to tormenting Spidey.

Brutally killing the guard and then showing regret for taking an innocent life immediatley afterwards was meant to show that he was a troubled psychopath: the whole "innocents" thing got flanderization as he appeared in more stories, pretty much starting with when he saved the baby.

But I share the beleif that Michelinie wrote the best Venom stories, at least up until "Maximum Carnage."

edited 26th Feb '11 7:57:14 PM by ManwiththePlan

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#20: Feb 27th 2011 at 7:21:30 AM

The Lethal Protector phase worked for me because it highlighted the idea that Venom is two individuals, not one. Eddie Brock himself is a broken, psychologically unstable man with very severe issues, craving retribution for quasi-imagined slights against him, and the Venom symbiote was a spurned lover.

Lethal Protector felt, to me, like the symbiote's pale imitation of Spider-Man. Like it couldn't be with the one it loved, so it was trying (and failing) to make Eddie into The New Peter by messing with his already fragile psyche.

edited 27th Feb '11 7:21:49 AM by TobiasDrake

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ManwiththePlan Since: Dec, 2009
#21: Mar 1st 2011 at 8:11:53 PM

[up] I get that the idea wasn't bad; the execution was, however. The Lethal Protector mini-series actually ended up making Venom look like more of a hero than Spidey, which is just total bullshit.

And Eddie should've been ditched by the end of that story too. Venom could've been alot better characters bonded with the symbiote than him.

edited 1st Mar '11 8:14:21 PM by ManwiththePlan

Arawn444 Since: Jan, 2012
#22: Feb 9th 2013 at 5:24:14 AM

I grew up during Venom's "Lethal Protector" phase, so I'm not as iffy over it as some of the older readers. I can see people not liking the Life Foundation arc that popped up during that run only to be ignored for a couple of decades and then brought back specifically to be killed, though, and I myself am not much for them constantly retconning the symbiote's abilities and motives. First it just wanted to be loved by Peter and bonded with Eddie because he was thinking of Spider-Man, then they retconned it to bonding to Eddie because it wanted to suck his cancer-produced adrenaline out, now it just wants to eat people. I'm fine with the last step 'cause it shows how far the symbiote has fallen from what it was originally, but if the last step was gonna be discarded after a year or so it was really unnecessary.

Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#23: Feb 9th 2013 at 6:10:24 AM

Venom was awesome as a villain. I thought after mostly escaping the evil knockoff trope that Spider-man at least did it right when they decided to embrace it wholesale.

You are right, the symbiote loved Peter and he was too brutal in trying to get rid of it. That completely COMPLETELY justified stalking him with murderous intent, suffocating completely unaffiliated "evil doers", psychologically manipulation a broken man, robbery, cannibalism and generally being an asshole. Eddie Brock was a slanderer who published a false story and was caught in the act, so he had even less excuse for anything except for the aforementioned psychological manipulation. Their actions were understandable but sympathetic? No. Heroic material? HELL NO!

Only in the nineties would a murderous brain eating torturer be presented as a hero and find an audience. Humor, yeah maybe but I thought Venom was funnier as a villain. Despite their glaring faults compared to Spider-man's many virtues the Spider-man was the evil one because of one transgression and another act everyone else found heroic.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#24: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:42:28 AM

I've often felt Venom got a raw deal by the writers more than anything else. The brain-eating element, for example. Why was that necessary? Was Peter going around eating brains when he had the symbiote? It felt like an unnecessary addition existing purely to villain him up more so people wouldn't sympathize with a character that, frankly, you SHOULD be able to sympathize with.

Venom has all the potential to be an intriguing, morally-ambiguous character, but that potential was mishandled out of the starting gate by efforts to make him more one-dimensional, and Lethal Protector didn't really help that.

Venom's character is strongest when the writers play up the element of the abandoned soul, desperately searching for someone to love it. But this element is very often ignored in favor of making him pure, liquid evil that taints and corrupts everything it touches.

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Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#25: Feb 9th 2013 at 7:49:39 AM

I kind of disagree, I thought the brain thing made sense for what is essentially a deceptive parasite. I figured that the reason it simply did not happen earlier was because of Spider-man's positive influence, which it was not getting from Eddie at all.

In that sense though, psychological manipulation does not seem quite so bad, it is not human after all.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

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