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Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#276: Jan 4th 2014 at 2:43:22 PM

[up] What's Mitosis? Also the Epic-derived tech is BS, it's all just Gifted Epic powers.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#277: Jan 4th 2014 at 2:46:54 PM

A short story taking place after Steelheart. Two bucks for the e-reader platform of your choice on Amazon. And for the spoilered bit wasn't the gauss gun based on Rick O'Shea or someone? Also, Diamond accepts bits of dead Epic as currency, so there must be something there.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#278: Jan 4th 2014 at 4:38:59 PM

[up][up] Prof's tech is Magic-Powered Pseudoscience, but the other stuff might not be. The mobiles, at least, are noted to be far more powerful and reliable than normal cell phones, which is attributed to a few last-minute scientific advances made from captured Epics before everything went belly-up.

edited 4th Jan '14 4:39:21 PM by Discar

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#279: Jan 8th 2014 at 11:10:12 AM

Prologue and first two chapters of ''Words of Radiance'' up at Tor.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Chaosjunction Since: Feb, 2010
#280: Jan 8th 2014 at 1:36:18 PM

[up]

Thanks for pointing that out, I might not have noticed other wise.

Jasnah seems to have been up to some interesting stuff six years ago with Elhokar's wife, wonder what the rationale behind that was, perhaps something to do with the Ghostbloods?

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#281: Jan 8th 2014 at 2:03:09 PM

Well, we don't know the specifics, but she did explain the general reasoning: Assassins like repeat customers, so if she can ingratiate herself to them all, they'll report if someone puts a hit on her family. Plus she didn't trust her sister-in-law. Unfortunately, she didn't understand the Parshendi, and apparently her father was up to something dangerous that they wanted to stop. I also found it interesting that she can identify at least a few female Parshendi; I was under the impression that the Alethi hadn't realized that some of the Parshendi they spoke to were female.

I think the Shallan and Adolin romance is going to be adorable. They'll probably fit well together. I kinda had her pegged for Kaladin's love interest, but that was sort of just random guessing.

Oh, and of course extremely useful information on the spren.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#282: Jan 9th 2014 at 6:45:08 PM

I didn't expect this much information on Jasnah. And for some reason I kinda saw Shallan ending up with Kaladin or Renarin, not Adolin. I hope WOR features some more Renarin, I feel he's a Chekhov's Gunman if I ever saw one.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#283: Feb 8th 2014 at 9:17:31 PM

Random thought about Steelheart today. So Villains Act, Heroes React is ubiquitous in cape comics. Plots happen because supervillains have a nefarious plan that superheroes have to stop. That's one more way Steelheart plays the superhero role. He and his crew would be perfectly happy chilling in Newcago being despotic if this Limelight clown didn't bust in and interrupt the status quo. And it's not just Limelight being villainously proactive. The Reckoners actively search for weaknesses and seek out targets, and David joins them because he actively predicted their movements and went to go tell them he wanted in. Mitosis doesn't hold to the pattern, though. The whole conflict is totally the evil Epic's fault for seeking out David.

The things Sanderson does with the heroism and villainy tropes just sends me into a state of mild Squee whenever I think about them.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#284: Feb 9th 2014 at 3:16:34 AM

While I agree with Brandon's work on heroism and villainy tropes is awesome (I'm rereading Warbreaker right now, who could have known Susebron the God King would turn out to be so adorkable?), isn't the "heroes (and also Kelsier) overthrow Evil Overlord" plot exempt from Villains Act, Heroes React?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#285: Feb 9th 2014 at 7:56:58 AM

Mistborn gets really complicated in terms of villainy, though. The Lord Ruler is definitely an Evil Overlord, but he's also legitimately trying to save the world from Ruin, so it's not exactly a black-and-white situation.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#286: Feb 9th 2014 at 11:11:27 AM

I note that the first Mistborn book is in large part a heist movie, where one traditionally roots for the criminals solely because they've cooler than law enforcement.

The only overthrow-the-overlord book I can remember offhand is Eragon, where the farmboy has to have his peaceful village attacked before he sets off go go adventuring.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#287: Feb 9th 2014 at 1:42:52 PM

Overthrowing an Evil Overlord is still a case of Villains Act, Heroes React, it's just that the villain's act (taking over the country/world and imposing tyrannical rule) happened before the story began.

edited 9th Feb '14 1:43:04 PM by RavenWilder

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#288: Feb 9th 2014 at 2:22:41 PM

True. I wish some better books (than Eragon) dealt with that. One speaks of the cliche, but I'm not sure where it came from.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#289: Feb 9th 2014 at 3:03:26 PM

I'm not sure that it's the earliest occurrence (indeed, I sincerely doubt that it is), but the plot of The Lord of the Rings seems very similar; I can easily see later writers taking the core concept — defeat an evil overlord — and transferring the overlord to the hero's land (perhaps in order to make the threat seem more immediate), perhaps along with additional examination of what, precisely, makes the overlord's rule so terrible.

(As to Mr. Sanderson, I'm currently reading the Mistborn series — I'm a significant way through the third book — and am thus far very impressed, I believe. In particular I'm very much enjoying the characters, including his treatment of the various villains, as well as the continuing cases of "another secret" revealed.)

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MasterGhandalf Since: Jul, 2009
#290: Feb 9th 2014 at 4:38:56 PM

[up]Lot R's setup is a bit different from Mistborn's, though, because it's about stopping the Evil Overlord from conquering the world, rather than toppling the Evil Overlord off his throne from within his established empire. Generally, I've found that most fantasy overlords have far less total control of their worlds than the Lord Ruler did- after all, the basic idea that inspired Mistborn: The Final Empire was "a world where the Dark Lord won".

However, if you're looking for old examples of Mistborn's basic setup, I recently ran into quite an old one from the Shanameh, the Book of Persian Kings. An early episode of the epic involves Zahhak the Serpent King, a pretty archetypical Evil Overlord who conquered all of the known world and ruled as a tyrannical sorcerer-king for a thousand years, before being overthrown by the hero Feraydun. The Shahnameh is about a thousand years old, but Ferdowsi (its author) didn't so much create a new story as edit a bunch of pre-existing Persian myths and folktales into a coherent narrative about his country's mythical history, so it's hard to tell exactly how old the Zahhak story is. In any case, the "resist the Evil Overlord" plot is clearly Older Than Print at least.

edited 9th Feb '14 4:40:10 PM by MasterGhandalf

ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#291: Feb 9th 2014 at 4:47:42 PM

[up] Regarding The Lord of the Rings, that's pretty much what I was saying, I believe. Note, however, that Sauron was, as I recall, the established overlord of a significant chunk of land, and at the least had the power to call up significant armies from lands to the east and south (where I believe that he was worshipped as a fire god). In short, it was toppling the Evil Overlord from without, rather than within (to a large degree for fear of their lands imminently becoming "within").

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MasterGhandalf Since: Jul, 2009
#292: Feb 9th 2014 at 4:51:41 PM

[up]Yeah, but none of the heroes were from Sauron-controlled land, and there were indeed still large chunks of Middle-earth that were free of Sauron's rule (in imminent danger of being conquered though they may have been). In Mistborn, by contrast, all of the main characters were born and raised in the Final Empire, and even the idea of successful resistance to TLR was borderline-legendary.

Ultimately, it's more a matter of perspective than anything, and the reader has a very different perspective on the War of the Ring than they do the revolution against the Lord Ruler.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#293: Feb 9th 2014 at 4:53:49 PM

Zahhak, huh?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#295: Feb 10th 2014 at 5:45:30 AM

Master Ghandalf, I'm not actually disagreeing with you in either of my previous posts, I believe. I said that the scenario in The Lord of the Rings is much like that of Mistborn, save for certain points of difference (in particular that the protagonists come from lands outside of those controlled by the Evil Overlord). I'm saying that they're similar, not the same.

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MasterGhandalf Since: Jul, 2009
#296: Feb 10th 2014 at 5:47:59 AM

[up]Okay, gotcha. Problem was probably on my end, since I put "resist external threat" and "revolt from within" plots in different mental boxes, even if both involve an Evil Overlord.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#297: Feb 10th 2014 at 6:23:09 AM

So I can't stop picturing Blushweaver as Porrim Maryam.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
ArsThaumaturgis Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
#298: Feb 10th 2014 at 6:47:00 AM

[up][up] Ah, fair enough—that's a classification that does make some sense, I think. For myself, I suppose that I classify it as "core idea: get rid of Evil Overlord", which is modified by the concepts "overthrow from within" or "resist from without".

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Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#299: Feb 11th 2014 at 11:04:52 AM

Finished Warbreaker. The annotations add a good bit of depth to the book, though you should really read it through normally at least once. Excellent book, anyway. My only problem was with Vivenna's character.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#300: Feb 11th 2014 at 3:14:56 PM

In what way? (I have some issues with her characterization/some of Sanderson's views on women, but was curious what you meant).

It isn't an accident that Mistborn seems similar to Lord of the Rings- it seems to clearly be pastiching it. The backstory is pretty much "what if Frodo took the Ring and became Sauron" (when we think Alendi is the Lord Ruler) and then later on turns out to be "what if Sam killed Frodo, took the Ring, and became Sauron (when we find out that Rahek is the Lord Ruler, not Alendi). And I think that it is pretty clear that Ruin is the Melkor to the Lord Ruler's Sauron (or alternatively, Ruin is the Sauron to the Lord Ruler's Saruman).

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