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TropesOfLegend: Tropes Of Legend

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FallenLegend Trickster. from Navel Of The Moon. Since: Oct, 2010
Trickster.
#1: Feb 14th 2011 at 9:34:46 PM

Tropes Of Legend are a collection of the most famous and widespread tropes. Some of them are so widespread as "inmune" to the new rules.

For instance as I brought the Issue to the forums. Both The Wesley and The Scrappy had as pictures JAFAAC. Yet some tropers were not open to (with justification of them bein too iconic) the idea of replacing The TropeNamer's as pictures.

On the other hand tropes like Xanatos Gambit and Xanatos Roulette (The Wesley and The scrappy are included) despite the guideline of never naming tropes simply with the name of another character]. The idea of renaming Tropes Of Legend seems unthinkable.

everytime a troper wants to change any of them (Tropes Of Legend). The request usually gets denied. In fact they seem to be a case of "Screw the rules I am popular"

Should the Tropes Of Legend be "inmune" to certain rules like JAFAAC for being popular?. Or should we try to change them when appropiate?. I think a final (official) answer to this issue would be very helpful for all tropers.

edited 14th Feb '11 9:38:39 PM by FallenLegend

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#2: Feb 14th 2011 at 9:39:58 PM

The Scrappy does not have a picture and The Wesley is probably as good as it gets for the trope because of that Iconic smug I am better then you so haha look.

And IMO they should be immune to some of the rules because they are simply engraved into the wiki as a whole. and most have 10s of thousands of inbounds thats the heart of what keeps the wiki going.

edited 14th Feb '11 9:40:42 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
FallenLegend Trickster. from Navel Of The Moon. Since: Oct, 2010
Trickster.
#3: Feb 14th 2011 at 9:42:09 PM

^yeah I made the proposal for removing that picture (The Scrappy). Still most tropers want him as the trope's picture.

The pic was removed for being of bad quality not much for being JAFAAC.Scrappy seems that he will be eventually back as the trope's picture (that is what most tropers want).

edited 14th Feb '11 9:42:49 PM by FallenLegend

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#4: Feb 14th 2011 at 9:42:53 PM

Well it goes well with the Take That, Scrappy! picture. (the images should link each other get some cross trope action going)

edited 14th Feb '11 9:43:35 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5: Feb 14th 2011 at 9:43:33 PM

There is no blanket immunity to anything here. Issues will be discussed on an individual basis as they come up.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#6: Feb 14th 2011 at 9:48:58 PM

Fixed tag.

I'm going with no. The purpose of an image is still to explain the trope, nothing about that changes.

Fight smart, not fair.
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#7: Feb 14th 2011 at 10:27:08 PM

I'd only go as far as to say that they seem to have de facto immunity. I blame the Grandfather Clause mostly.

FallenLegend Trickster. from Navel Of The Moon. Since: Oct, 2010
Trickster.
#8: Feb 14th 2011 at 10:33:43 PM

^ totally agree

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.
Redhead Since: Jan, 2011
#9: Feb 14th 2011 at 10:43:25 PM

I agree with with not renaming/redefining Tropes Of Legend, but is replacing the page image really such a major change?

And I'm trying to find a more obviously smug image of Crusher, but all I get are smug pictures of other TNG characters, comic strips and pictures of mashed potatoes with spinach.

edited 14th Feb '11 10:46:25 PM by Redhead

The new It Just Bugs Me!
suedenim Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl from Jet Dream HQ Since: Oct, 2009
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
#10: Feb 15th 2011 at 6:31:33 AM

These tropes are already exceptions in various major ways to our regular rules, so bending other rules seems OK.

For instance, with regard to character-named tropes, our general rule is "Don't do it," but several such tropes are protected by the Grandfather Clause-we-don't-call-a-Grandfather Clause. In that handful of cases, I think it might actually be desirable to have the trope image be the Trope Namer, and to put the explanation of why it's the Trope Namer right up front in the description (instead of buried in the examples, as they often are.)

Jet-a-Reeno!
troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#11: Feb 15th 2011 at 9:14:14 AM

[up] I think tropes with a Trope Namer should always explain the Trope Namer in the description.

FallenLegend Trickster. from Navel Of The Moon. Since: Oct, 2010
Trickster.
#12: Feb 15th 2011 at 11:39:59 AM

^ that would help a lot with the issue.

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.
Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#13: Feb 15th 2011 at 2:28:50 PM

I really wish we would stop using the term Grandfather Clause to lump poor arguments not to change a trope ("It's been around for a long time") with what some would consider important arguments not to change a trope ("It has exceptional performance in the categories of inbounds, wicks, etc. as outlined in Everything You Wanted To Know About Changing Names").

It just comes off as a deceptive (and somewhat snarky) attempt at discrediting the other side of the argument.

At any rate, being among the Tropes Of Legend does not make a page immune to page action attempts. As was said above, each case will be looked at individually. The problem you run into is that things are decided by consensus, and if a large portion of people in an Image Pickin thread think that a particular image should stay, it will short of admin fiat.

Getting an admin to declare that Tropes Of Legend are not automatically exempt from JAFAAC won't really resolve anything, because that is already the case. The only way you're going to get around a majority of voters wanting to keep an image despite JAFAAC is to get Fast Eddie to override them in each case, which is not something that he normally does unless it's a big issue.

edit: Also, since this is a discussion of policy, and not related to any actual page action against Tropes Of Legend, this should probably be in Wiki Talk instead of Trope Repair Shop.

edited 15th Feb '11 5:21:19 PM by Meeble

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DrStarky Okay Guy from Corn And Pig Land Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
#14: Feb 15th 2011 at 3:54:37 PM

I don't we even need to use the the Grandfather Clause .

Take a look at Flander Ization . Ned Flanders is a good example of the Trope, but he's not particulary well known for it. He's even the biggest example on the The Simpsons . A name like that wouldn't fly today.

But we don't keep that name because it's old. We keep it because it's so widley used and everyone seems to get what it means despite the name. It would do more harm to change the name than to keep it.

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#15: Feb 15th 2011 at 4:20:24 PM

[up] Taken from Square Peg Round Trope:

* Flanderization was originally a fairly specific phenomenon, referring to when a previously complex character would eventually come to be defined by one or two specific quirks. However, over time, it decayed into "character generally became broader/wackier", and from there, it further decayed into "any broad/wacky character", even if they were that way to begin with. At this point, the trope has become so vague that people now say that the trope itself has been Flanderized. Now it is apparently possible to be Flanderized in the very same episode you first appear in.

  • On the Flanderization page there was a list of Tropes that have been Flanderized, which almost rivalled the normal examples in length.

DrStarky Okay Guy from Corn And Pig Land Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
#16: Feb 15th 2011 at 5:12:06 PM

[up]Yeah, that wasn't the best example. But it's not really the name's fault. I think it's just regular trope decay.

edited 15th Feb '11 5:12:21 PM by DrStarky

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
Frank75 Since: Jan, 2001
#17: Apr 15th 2011 at 5:19:36 AM

I think we should make a decision when a trope is a trope of legend and when it isn't. A work is Trope Overdosed if it has at least 1000 wicks, but when is a trope a trope of legend?

2000 wicks doesn't sound unreasonable for me. Just in comparison: We have about 20000 trope pages now, about the same number of work pages, and more than 40000 sub pages.

I also do think that every trope page that has a number of sub pages should automatically count too.

edited 15th Apr '11 7:13:08 AM by Frank75

Fuhrmann, es kostet dir noch dein Leben
Nyarly Das kann doch nicht sein! from Saksa Since: Feb, 2012
Das kann doch nicht sein!
#18: Apr 15th 2011 at 5:25:12 AM

Whatever "inmune" is, I don't think that any trope is this.

:P

People aren't as awful as the internet makes them out to be.
Frank75 Since: Jan, 2001
#19: Apr 15th 2011 at 7:12:57 AM

Das hier ist Hans. Hans macht Rechtschreibflames und hat deshalb keine Freunde. Möchtest du so sein wie Hans?

Fuhrmann, es kostet dir noch dein Leben
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#20: Apr 15th 2011 at 2:52:01 PM

[up]Was bezieht das allem mit ein?

chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#21: Apr 15th 2011 at 3:44:37 PM

[up][up] English, please. One of the forum rules is that you have to converse in English. If you need help, go to one of the pinned pages in this sub-forum.

KrisMahai Hm? Since: Jan, 2013
Hm?
#22: Apr 15th 2011 at 8:45:13 PM

^ Er, no. I'm pretty sure we have no such rule.

Of course, you'd have to speak in English to be understand by most people, but there's no rule about it. At least not in the rules.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
Frank75 Since: Jan, 2001
#23: Apr 18th 2011 at 4:18:47 AM

Nyarly who's German like me made a post which wasn't exactly helpful, so I couldn't resist and post a German meme. Here's the translation:

"That's Hans. Hans flames people for typos, that's why he has no friends. Do you want to be like Hans?"

Fuhrmann, es kostet dir noch dein Leben
Frank75 Since: Jan, 2001
#24: Apr 19th 2011 at 4:34:17 AM

Back to topic.

See also this YKTTW.

Fuhrmann, es kostet dir noch dein Leben
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