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Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#976: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:14:41 PM

I mentioned placebos because giving them to a patient and not telling them what they truly are is a form of lying.

Just to clarify, in placebo-controlled studies you are required to inform your testing base that they may receive a placebo. In many cases, the study is double-blind and not even the doctors are aware of precisely who is getting a placebo (only the people running the study keep the database linking who got what), but they have to consent to that too.

edited 16th Mar '11 2:17:39 PM by Pykrete

TheMightyAnonym PARTY HARD!!!! from Pony Chan Since: Jan, 2010
PARTY HARD!!!!
#977: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:15:18 PM

Loophole!

Also, the original statement is that one shouldn't bare "false witness". Different?

edited 16th Mar '11 2:16:38 PM by TheMightyAnonym

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#978: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:15:45 PM

DUN DUN DUN~!!

I like how we are skirting the line between civility and angry hatred while also throwing in pointless insanity.

edited 16th Mar '11 2:16:22 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
TheMightyAnonym PARTY HARD!!!! from Pony Chan Since: Jan, 2010
PARTY HARD!!!!
#979: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:17:07 PM

That's what makes the fora so great.[lol]

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#980: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:17:44 PM

It's amazing this hasn't gotten locked really. There's been open insults, derails, and shitposting.

edited 16th Mar '11 2:18:01 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#981: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:25:26 PM

What about that study where people were given what they thought were alcoholic drinks? Turns out the weren't, but it was a way to observe the placebo effect (essentially the patients acted like drunks when it was in fact water they were drinking).

Either way, experiments often use a form of lying.

And no, I don't know how this works for bi-sexual people. All I am doing is showing what we know so far about sexuality. If my brain structure indeed matches a straight woman's, and it's like this for a majority of gay people, how can you still say it's a choice?

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
TheMightyAnonym PARTY HARD!!!! from Pony Chan Since: Jan, 2010
PARTY HARD!!!!
#982: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:29:08 PM

The study is important because it shows initial desire and tendencies are not chosen. However, I would not say that it is proof of being locked in, due to the nature of bisexuals and so on. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if my brain structure were to match that of a female. What would you make of that?

And somehow that unrelated placebo thing is also (indirectly) relevant to one of my earlier points - that belief alone is a huge factor.

(essentially the patients acted like drunks when it was in fact water they were drinking).

That is hilarious.

edited 16th Mar '11 2:30:07 PM by TheMightyAnonym

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
LoveHappiness Nihilist Hippie Since: Dec, 2010
Nihilist Hippie
#983: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:29:50 PM

"If my brain structure indeed matches a straight woman's, and it's like this for a majority of gay people, how can you still say it's a choice?"

The problem with is that brain structure isn't fixed. The choices you make always effect your brain structure, and vice versa. Though that might be pedantic.

edited 16th Mar '11 2:30:30 PM by LoveHappiness

"Had Mother Nature been a real parent, she would have been in jail for child abuse and murder." -Nick Bostrom
snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#984: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:31:54 PM

No, I don't think it means you're necessarily locked in. I also don't think it means you actively choose who you're sexually attracted to.

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#985: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:32:27 PM

@TMA 977: Indeed it is; in fact that changes the meaning of the statement entirely. It's not "don't lie", it's "don't commit perjury".

@snailbait: (Not that this is actual evidence but,) you don't even need the placebo effect for that one. I've felt hyper before after drinking decaf coffee. It's really strange, to say the least.

@LH: The brain is not as flexible as you think it is. Sure it's not totally fixed, but if it was as fluid as everyone thinks it is you wouldn't be able to think at all.

In any case, they specifically looked for areas of the brain that don't change during your life.

edited 16th Mar '11 2:34:16 PM by BlackHumor

TheMightyAnonym PARTY HARD!!!! from Pony Chan Since: Jan, 2010
PARTY HARD!!!!
#986: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:38:30 PM

No, I don't think it means you're necessarily locked in. I also don't think it means you actively choose who you're sexually attracted to.

Not actively, no. At least not normally.

But I believe it is quite possible to do so, if one (honestly) tries.

I think, essentially, that Everyone Is Bi - or at least has the capability to be.

@TMA 977: Indeed it is; in fact that changes the meaning of the statement entirely. It's not "don't lie", it's "don't commit perjury".

Interesting. I'll have to discuss with my pastor.

@snailbait: (Not that this is actual evidence but, ) you don't even need the placebo effect for that one. I've felt hyper before after drinking decaf coffee. It's really strange, to say the least.

Also interesting. I've noticed stuff like that before, myself.

edited 16th Mar '11 2:38:49 PM by TheMightyAnonym

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#987: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:38:52 PM

@Black Humor: Well, no, I never said that. They were using water in the experiment, so it'd be strange if they were acting that way due to other reasons besides the placebo effect.

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
SG_man_forever That one dude. from Earf. Welcome to it. Since: Apr, 2010
That one dude.
#988: Mar 16th 2011 at 2:53:13 PM

And no, I don't know how this works for bi-sexual people. All I am doing is showing what we know so far about sexuality. If my brain structure indeed matches a straight woman's, and it's like this for a majority of gay people, how can you still say it's a choice?

For me, it's just that if I see a particularly sexy guy, my brain reacts in much the same way as I would if I saw a particularly sexy woman.

It's not in the least bit volitional controllable. Anon may be able to do stuff like that of volition, but (again, assuming he's not lying) I don't think he's mentally well.

Without music, life would be a mistake. -Friedrich Nietzsche
BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#989: Mar 16th 2011 at 3:06:47 PM

TMA, honestly I think your problem is a combination of your bisexuality and the typical mind fallacy.

So I pose to you a variation of the normal example, in the hope that you're not also pansexual: Try as hard as you can to be attracted to this sheep.

Not really possible, is it? You might be able to force yourself to fuck it if you needed to, but you can't force yourself to like it.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#990: Mar 16th 2011 at 3:18:23 PM

(essentially the patients acted like drunks when it was in fact water they were drinking).

I seem to recall Team Rocket doing that once.

TheMightyAnonym PARTY HARD!!!! from Pony Chan Since: Jan, 2010
PARTY HARD!!!!
#991: Mar 16th 2011 at 8:46:31 PM

...

Merciful heavens, I feel so dirty now...

Does this make me Chaotic Good?

...yeah, I succeeded. Fortunately... I think?

-shudders-

The dirt I feel... is not so much at the fact that within a few seconds, I was able to "make" myself feel attracted to something, so much as it is that I am extraordinarily creeped out right now.

Of course, I'd assume that this result will mean nothing, given that I'm a little detached from normal thought and it's easy to just say that I'm pansexual or something.

...all I needed to do was rationalize that I was doing something morally "OK", and it *worked* - I thought a bit, and got to like it, even want it...

Yikes. :/ I was at first repulsed, but I imagined feeling it, holding it... too much information.

As for the generalizing from one example, I've already stated that I cannot truly know, but I've also offered statements that apply to people other than myself - mainly the fact that the more frustrated a person becomes, the more unlikely it is for any change to be possible. You would have to want it, believe it to be possible, and have a clear head (not one full of shame and suffering).

edited 16th Mar '11 8:50:54 PM by TheMightyAnonym

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#992: Mar 17th 2011 at 4:50:52 AM

Right, first: apologies for any mental pain you've suffered from actually trying my example.

Second, from your description, I am having doubts that you are actually attracted to the sheep. Since it obviously caused you more pain than WANT, I don't think the WANT is genuine. (Not that I am saying to try it again by the way.)

snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#993: Mar 17th 2011 at 9:07:05 AM

Ooh, let's play the "Find Fuckable Things for Anon" game!

This is one sexy robot, amirite?

edited 17th Mar '11 9:08:51 AM by snailbait

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#994: Mar 17th 2011 at 9:18:48 AM

I'd hump the sheep and that robot. They aren't sexy. Just humpable. Now a sheep person? WANT. NOW.

edited 17th Mar '11 9:18:57 AM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#995: Mar 17th 2011 at 9:32:34 AM

Are you techo-sexual now? :D Let's start a pride parade!

Still...I'm sort of wary toward those computer lovers. It's like, you already can have a robot, why would you ever date a computer? God created Adam and C3PO, not Adam and Apple MacBook!

edited 17th Mar '11 9:35:02 AM by snailbait

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#996: Mar 17th 2011 at 9:37:27 AM

I don't date in general so no I have not.

I never said I would trust or love the machine. I am merely saying that it is worthy of being humped. Is it an object I can rub myself against? Y/N? Clearly the answer is yes! Were it not I'd have to find some other way to pleasure myself with it. Maybe I could stick it up me...

Unless my desiring to hump things means I do find them sexy in which case I find most ugly people, just people in general, my pillows, robots, all clothing, beds, couches, chairs, tables, most animals and so on sexy.

edited 17th Mar '11 9:38:48 AM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#997: Mar 17th 2011 at 9:43:04 AM

Unless my desiring to hump things means I do find them sexy in which case I find most ugly people, my pillows, robots, all clothing, beds, couches, chairs, tables, most animals and so on sexy.

Of course it does! grin Obviously, everything you hump is what you're sexually attracted to. No exceptions.

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#998: Mar 17th 2011 at 9:47:04 AM

God my pillow's a sexy bitch. Wait. Am I cheating on my girlfriend if I hump my pillow? Does my thinking about said girlfriend while humping the pillow mean I am doing the pillow some wrong?

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#1000: Mar 17th 2011 at 9:49:32 AM

Yes...not telling people things makes everything right...

Thank you, Kino. Now back to fucking everything in my house.

edited 17th Mar '11 9:49:49 AM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

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