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Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#901: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:04:20 PM

Loni Jay: Apparently pride has another secondary definition where you can take pride in being who you are. A sort of feeling of self worth. Feeling like you're an all right dude. Or some such. I can understand it a bit better after having it explained to me and by those terms I suppose that I do feel proud. I don't feel badly about it in any way. I am not going to say I have GAY PRIDE though.

edited 15th Mar '11 4:06:21 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#902: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:08:43 PM

@Loni Jay: I struggled with this too, believe me. How can you be proud of something you've never accomplished? This is how I eventually interpreted Gay Pride:

Okay, so you just came out. Your mom called you a fag, your dad kicked you out, your friends all hate you, you're pretty much homeless until you find a distant relative that accepts you into their home. And you survive. Despite everyone bringing you down, you keep going.

While this story is not anecdotal, it certainly captures the spirit of Gay Pride, I think. Basically, the accomplishment is not being gay, but overcoming the shit that is associated with being gay.

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
Pingu Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
#903: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:12:41 PM

Because straight people aren't a persecuted minority. Being gay is often regarded as something to ashamed of, and 'gay pride' is just saying that you're not ashamed. Self-respect. Straight people don't really need to affirm that they aren't ashamed because it's a given.

Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#904: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:13:18 PM

Yes...that's a good point too, Snail. There's also the feeling pride in putting up with and overcoming any of the shit you've been thrown because of it. I am proud that I can get over the name calling and such. I am happy with how things are generally and I don't let that shit bog me down too much.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
◥▶◀◤
#905: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:15:21 PM

[1] This sums up my "gay pride" ideals (NSFW-language.). I personally have self-pride, and thats about it.

edited 15th Mar '11 4:18:40 PM by Vyctorian

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LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#906: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:22:31 PM

I suppose it's not so much 'pride' as it is an exaggerated lack of shame, then.

But them people are sometimes proud of their nationalities or cultures, and you don't get a choice in them either.

Be not afraid...
snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#907: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:23:37 PM

^^ I vehemently disagree with that entire video. We have to earn our rights? We should get smacked for saying we're gay at a Pride parade?

edited 15th Mar '11 4:23:57 PM by snailbait

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
◥▶◀◤
#908: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:27:17 PM

[up]I generally don't like any parade that isn't The Macy's day one...so yes. Everyone has to earn respect (gay, srt8, White, black, male, female, ect.) , it's only self-entitled pricks who haven't worked a day in their life who think otherwise.

And frankly yes, I live with homophobic parents who think that's what being bi/gay is, and was raised being taught thats what it is, so yes, they are hurting us more than helping us!

edited 15th Mar '11 4:29:31 PM by Vyctorian

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Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#909: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:27:24 PM

Going by the definitions of pride I can find online and in my two dictionaries it is pride actually. Behold. Self-respect and such fall under that banner of pride.

It is similar to cultural and racial pride. So it seems to me anyway.

Also can someone sum up for me what is in that video?

Wait what...we are not earning rights? I would think this hard fought battle in courts and such was trying to earn rights...The pride parades are part of this effort...

edited 15th Mar '11 4:28:26 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#910: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:30:16 PM

^^ I just don't like the idea that minorities have to "earn" their rights from the big bad white straight males. It should be a right we have unconditionally, not something we have to earn. This doesn't mean I'm a lazy ass either. We'll keep fighting this regardless.

So the problem is gay people, right guys? It's definitely not how your parents were raised. Oh, certainly not.

edited 15th Mar '11 4:32:19 PM by snailbait

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
◥▶◀◤
#911: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:32:26 PM

[up]Obviously not, I'm pansexual which is worse in my parents eyes, but granted not everyone else is as free-thinking. Also he never said earn rights , he said Respect. Big Difference.

also it's not just big bad white males, I know a Hispanic women who doesn't respect gays or bi's.

edited 15th Mar '11 4:34:29 PM by Vyctorian

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snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#912: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:35:04 PM

Educating people is better than making everybody conform to straight stereotypes so we don't get persecuted.

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#913: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:36:21 PM

Nobody has to respect you for being gay. They have to respect you for being human beings.

Say everyone starts out with a base level of respect. Nobody should demand extra respect above this base level just for who they are, but neither should they get less than it.

Be not afraid...
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#914: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:39:20 PM

Yes. You've stated the obvious...?

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#915: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:41:14 PM

Both in feudal Japan and Ancient Greece it was considered semi-normal to be gay, as most were at least bi-sexual.

Not quite as familiar with Japan, but I'd need some convincing that what was going on in Greece was actually widespread bisexual attraction as we know it today, rather than just sex as a cultural institution. There was a huge power dynamic regarding who was pitching and catching, for one.

edited 15th Mar '11 5:14:29 PM by Pykrete

LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#916: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:42:00 PM

So, 'gay pride' is people who feel that they do get less than the base level and are trying to rectify it, but people who dislike it think that they're trying to get above the base level? I'm just trying to figure out all this 'nobody owes you respect, you have to earn it' stuff.

Be not afraid...
Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
◥▶◀◤
#917: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:42:07 PM

If not saying conform to stereotypes but what I'm also saying is don't go out in public with ass-less pants, s/m gear and start waving around pink flags and yelling about how much you like sex. (I've been to a parade before) and expect to get more respect. .

Your embarrassing yourself, me and the rest of the community but not having the decency of human politeness. Seriously for everyone 1 person like that I know I know 9 people like me who are afraid to say their gay/bi/pan because all people think of is that one guy.

Edit: Didn't finish my thought in paragraph one.

Edit 2: Spelling.

Edit 3: Spelled two when I meant the number 2.

edited 15th Mar '11 4:47:15 PM by Vyctorian

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inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#918: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:44:43 PM

Ass-less pants? how... tacky.

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#919: Mar 15th 2011 at 4:49:38 PM

Ah. 'k then. I was just a wee bit confused, Loni. Yes that seems to be the current situation. The belief that LGBT are demanding more respect is bothersome...

As for fearing coming out because of gay pride parades...I've never felt this fear. Or fear regarding it at all. Save for coming out to my grandparents because I am very fond of them and would hate for them to be upset with me about it. If all they think of is are crazy half naked fucks then ok. So be it. At least I know how to party apparently. I did feel the fear of flirting with girls or telling them how I felt, but eh. Doesn't bug me so much now. This may change a bit if I get jumped, but until then? Meh.

It should also probably be noted that I don't have much of a desire to really mention it to anyone unless it is being directly asked. If not it typically just shows in how I talk about girls I suppose? Save to my grandparents. They're a special case in regards to these matters.

edited 15th Mar '11 4:50:47 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
◥▶◀◤
#920: Mar 15th 2011 at 5:04:37 PM

With me it's less the fear of coming out and more the want to go back in. I always get questions of what X is like, and how often do I do X, when X is some activity I've never even considered doing or most of the time heard of, but because I'm some sort of alternate sexuality I must know all about X, so I become the resent person to lob questions about every fetish known to man, because since I'm an alternate sexuality I must know all about X, right!

And when I don't know about it then I'm suddenly a poser who only said I was pansexual for attention or whateva.

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Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#921: Mar 15th 2011 at 5:10:39 PM

I tend to deal with that by just answering honestly or joking about shit. Thankfully I don't get a lot of "YOU'RE JUST A POSER" from people I reveal this to. Those who have said this I have not been kind to... They were people I could afford to be a bitch to. I've been very lucky in this regard.

Questions I tend get..."What does pansexual mean again?", "How do you know? Have you actually done anything?", "How do girls you know...do it?", "Why can't you just say bi?", "-enter question about fetishes here-".

I tend to have or at least understand and take interest in most of the fetishes I get asked about...

edited 15th Mar '11 5:11:27 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#922: Mar 15th 2011 at 5:40:40 PM

If not saying conform to stereotypes but what I'm also saying is don't go out in public with ass-less pants, s/m gear and start waving around pink flags and yelling about how much you like sex. (I've been to a parade before) and expect to get more respect. .

Your embarrassing yourself, me and the rest of the community but not having the decency of human politeness. Seriously for everyone 1 person like that I know I know 9 people like me who are afraid to say their gay/bi/pan because all people think of is that one guy.

Why not? Why can't they do those things? Why do they have to stop just because people don't like it?

And obviously if someone thinks you're that kind of person after revealing your sexuality, then you either A) Educate the person that not all queer people are like that or B) not associate with that person.

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#923: Mar 15th 2011 at 5:44:14 PM

Sadly A doesn't always work and B isn't always an option.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#924: Mar 15th 2011 at 5:48:00 PM

I was hoping that if A didn't work then they'd just do B. I can see what you mean though.

I dunno...I just don't like how it's widely accepted to bash people who are stereotypes. They're still people.

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#925: Mar 15th 2011 at 5:50:27 PM

They are people and I don't agree with bashing them. Unless they reveal themselves worthy of it. The problem is that everyone has different views on what "worthy of it" means...

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

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