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MetaFour AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN from A Place (Old Master)
AXTE INCAL AXTUCE MUN
#2376: Jun 11th 2012 at 7:44:23 PM

I have never been much a fan of the "put glass everywhere" school of architecture,
How about the Holy Family Shrine?

Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#2378: Jun 12th 2012 at 12:16:17 PM

Oh that was amusing.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#2380: Jun 12th 2012 at 3:34:38 PM

As for architecture, mine looks like this. They were very much going for a nature feel when they built it. The interior is kind of nice in its relative simplicity, but unfortunately all the pictures seem to have been taken from the altar. For some reason.

edited 12th Jun '12 3:35:59 PM by Pykrete

Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#2381: Jun 12th 2012 at 9:38:04 PM

How about the Holy Family Shrine?
Not a fan either. This said, architectural taste is personal, to a degree, and I am certainly not some sort of connoisseur on this topic.

This is the church where I had my First Communion and my Confirmation, and where I go whenever possible: it is certainly nothing special or artistic, but I find that it has some balance that these glass constructions lack.

This is an older church in the same zone, in a place in which in the 1500s Mary appeared to two shepherds (one of the two was dumb, and started speaking after the vision), and this is yet another church in the same town which was built to thank Saint Roch for saving that mountain town from the Black Death. Did I mention that that is the town my ancestors come from?

EDIT:

As an aside, I really like Saint Roch. In brief, he was a Frenchman (the legend says that he was the son of the governor of Montpellier) who decided to go to Rome in pilgrimage. It was the time of the Black Death, so along the way he spent time trying to help out the diseased, until he got ill himself. He got thrown out, and returned back to Montpellier, where he was arrested as a spy by his uncle and died in prison. Then, some 700 years later, Italian people who hear his name snigger because that's also the name that a famous socialite/porn actor took for himself.

Dude just cannot get a break sad

edited 12th Jun '12 10:06:17 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#2383: Jun 12th 2012 at 10:05:02 PM

The wat I go to. It is a small little house. The interior is rather small. In particular the meditation hall. Due to us not using chairs -chairs are pretty much a foreign concept in temples in general- it isn't that bad...We also don't get too many visitors regularly. On holidays it becomes...a gaggle of people crammed into one room. Said gaggle is also bowing their heads to the floor at regular intervals!

edited 12th Jun '12 10:06:22 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#2384: Jun 12th 2012 at 10:07:38 PM

Oh, that thing I mentioned on the other thread about Lutherans and Catholics building their stuff right next to each other, if that picture I showed panned 90 degrees right you'd see the Lutheran church not even across the street.

When I was in Corvallis, St. Mary's and the Lutheran church were both across the street from my house on opposite sides.

Jimmmyman10 cannot into space from polan Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
cannot into space
#2385: Jun 13th 2012 at 6:45:20 AM

My church actually has a pretty cool story; We were in a really, really small rented out building, look for a new place to go. There was a church nearby that owns a large property with multiple church buildings, which it then rents out/sells to church's that wouldn't have the money to buy a full property. (It's always fun to listen to the Haitian church across the street) We got them to offer us the redone gym across the street, and now have a huge church building to use.

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.
pagad Sneering Imperialist from perfidious Albion Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Sneering Imperialist
#2386: Jun 13th 2012 at 2:01:54 PM

This is the church in my home village, if anyone's interested. I find the architecture an interesting contrast with Carc's pictures of the older Italian churches, because the churches would have likely been built in roughly the same time period.

edited 13th Jun '12 2:02:22 PM by pagad

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
Bluespade from Fort Worth, Texas Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
#2387: Jun 14th 2012 at 12:00:21 AM

Hello all. I'm a Christian Troper. I just thought I should introduce myself I guess. I don't really know what y'all talk about here.

Also, hi, Aon, I, uh, didn't really expect to see you here.

[down] That's cool. It's nice to see someone open minded.

edited 14th Jun '12 12:14:54 AM by Bluespade

Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.
Aondeug Oh My from Our Dreams Since: Jun, 2009
Oh My
#2388: Jun 14th 2012 at 12:12:10 AM

I like mingling with people of other faiths and learning about them through observation, questioning, or discussion. I hang out in the Pagan thread too. Sadly the Buddhism thread remains largely dead, but eh. If it's dead for the most part it is dead for the most part.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
Blurring One just might from one hill away to the regular Bigfoot jungle. Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
One just might
#2389: Jun 16th 2012 at 3:55:51 AM

Not a Christian but just wanting to ask something.

The question is, what is so bad about death itself? I understand the part about not being able to worship God as ordained anymore but death itself is part of human nature. So what is the thing I'm missing here?

Edit - Correct some punctuation.

edited 16th Jun '12 5:11:32 AM by Blurring

If a chicken crosses the road and nobody else is around to see it, does the road move beneath the chicken instead?
Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#2390: Jun 16th 2012 at 4:18:52 AM

I don't know if this is something about which there is agreement within Christianity. So I'll give my answer; but other people might have other answers, or they might deny altogether than death, in itself, is bad.

The thing is, death is not, I believe, part of human nature as it should be. It is a consequence of the Fall. It is possible that there was something "before" the Fall (my ideas about the Fall are rather complicated; suffice to say, I do not believe that it was a historical event in the same sense in which Caesar conquering Gallia was a historical event, but I do believe that it happened — it is not just a metaphor, although it is also a metaphor) that had a superficial similarity to death and that was twisted into death after the Fall; but ultimately, death and mortality as we know them are something that Should Never Have Been. They were not part of God's original plan for humankind: for what loving God would support them?

Rather, as the Book of Wisdom says,

But by the envy of the devil, death came into the world;
and as Jesus says, God is the God of the living, not a god of death.

Death, ultimately, is an enemy, like sin. It is, Paul suggests, the last enemy that will be defeated; but it will be defeated.

Our liturgy for Easter attests this defiance:

Death and Life have contended in a combat stupendous, and the Prince of Life, Who died, now reigns immortal.

edited 16th Jun '12 4:25:40 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
Blurring One just might from one hill away to the regular Bigfoot jungle. Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
One just might
#2391: Jun 16th 2012 at 5:15:28 AM

[up]So it is to your belief, humans get to experience death due to the action of the devil?

If a chicken crosses the road and nobody else is around to see it, does the road move beneath the chicken instead?
Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#2392: Jun 16th 2012 at 5:18:10 AM

Essentially, yes. Although it was also the responsibility of Adam and Eve, that is, of humankind. If Adam and Eve had stood fast, the devil would have failed.

This said, on this topic, I am curious about the Muslim conception of the devil. I don't know if I should ask this in the Muslim thread; but if I understand things correctly, you call it Iblis, right? And it is not a fallen angel, but a Djinn, that is, some sort of fire spirit?

edited 16th Jun '12 5:19:07 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
Blurring One just might from one hill away to the regular Bigfoot jungle. Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
One just might
#2393: Jun 16th 2012 at 5:34:53 AM

Iblis is a jinn, creatures made from smokeless fire. Also another of God's creation, like man, who have free will. I don't think it is as powerful as the Christians depiction of the Devil. It never get independent from God and will never get to claim any soul.

If a chicken crosses the road and nobody else is around to see it, does the road move beneath the chicken instead?
Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#2394: Jun 16th 2012 at 6:09:48 AM

I don't know if I would describe the Christian depiction of the devil as "powerful". Essentially, its only power is to lie; but of course, it being an entity older than time itself and many orders of magnitude more intelligent than any human being, it can use that capability with terrifying effectiveness.

And I don't know if I would say that it would ever "claim" any soul; rather, I would say that it aims to bring human souls to the same level of ultimate, irredeemable wretchedness at which its own soul is.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
Blurring One just might from one hill away to the regular Bigfoot jungle. Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
One just might
#2395: Jun 16th 2012 at 6:15:31 AM

it aims to bring human souls to the same level of ultimate, irredeemable wretchedness at which its own soul is.

That I could agree with. I will change my previous perception about what Christians think about Devil at once.

edited 16th Jun '12 6:21:17 AM by Blurring

If a chicken crosses the road and nobody else is around to see it, does the road move beneath the chicken instead?
lordGacek Since: Jan, 2001
#2396: Jun 16th 2012 at 8:44:35 AM

Just keep in mind that Christianity is a broad category, even if the issue of the Devil is less of a controversy than, say, what exactly goes on during Mass.

Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#2397: Jun 16th 2012 at 8:46:46 AM

Yeah: for example, there are Christians who say that the devil does not exist, except as a metaphor for the temptation that every sapient being has to face. I cannot say that I agree with them on this; but they are unquestionably Christian.

edited 16th Jun '12 8:47:06 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
#2398: Jun 16th 2012 at 11:13:07 AM

I agree with what Carciofus said about the devil, which, given that he is Catholic and I am a non-denominational evangelical, should tell you that that doctrine has fairly broad acceptance within Christianity.

As regards death, I'm actually inclined to think of it as a merciful thing, which is not bad in itself but which is a symptom of a depraved world: without death, a human could continue to grow more and more evil and would essentially create hell on earth for themselves and everyone else. Because everyone dies, the damage they can do both to others and to their own soul is limited.

However, I fully admit that this is coming more from Tolkien's influence on me than from a very clear theological study.

<><
lordGacek Since: Jan, 2001
#2399: Jun 16th 2012 at 11:24:48 AM

It appears to me that the view of Death is kind of fluid. Perhaps it's the influence of pop-culture. I've heard a priest during a service referring to "sister Death", as the one who lets us go of this world.

Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#2400: Jun 16th 2012 at 1:13:10 PM

given that he is Catholic and I am a non-denominational evangelical, should tell you that that doctrine has fairly broad acceptance within Christianity.
Ah, but the both of us have read Lewis' Space Trilogy. I will fully admit that my idea of the devil owes quite a lot to the Un-man tongue

[up] Saint Francis praises God for "sister bodily death". This said, he was more than a little fond of paradoxes; and he took the Gospel's idea of loving one's enemies to the extreme consequences and then some.

edited 16th Jun '12 1:15:12 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

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