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fringeboneschuck Since: Apr, 2011
#276: Apr 8th 2011 at 5:11:45 AM

I'm a Christian. I have been since I was 7 and I intend to be one forever.

ComputerSherpa hero in training from the future Since: Jan, 2001
hero in training
#277: Apr 8th 2011 at 9:55:06 PM

As a Protestant, I'm kind of under-educated regarding Catholics, but to the best of my awareness, the question of "how buddy-buddy should we be with God?" is one of the primary divisions between Catholics and Protestants. Protestants generally believe in getting very personal with God, whereas Catholics keep him at a distance and approach through intermediaries. (Please correct me if I err.)

So it sounds to me like this revision is a case of Catholic theology becoming more Catholic.

The Periodic Table of Storytelling: Tropes in three characters or less.
Rottweiler Dog and Pony Show from Portland, Oregon Since: Dec, 2009
Dog and Pony Show
#278: Apr 9th 2011 at 1:33:09 PM

[up] I don't know about that. A good Catholic literally consumes Jesus every week. Also, at least since the Renaissance, they've depicted God the Father in art, which the Orthodox consider scandalously over-familiar.

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
Radd well, it's true from sunny Florida Since: Dec, 1969
well, it's true
#279: Apr 9th 2011 at 1:40:26 PM

So what are you guys' opinions on animals?

"Loid, I'm pretty sure you hate your father more than I hate my mother with a hammer" - Ninten, Loids Are Not Christmas
ComputerSherpa hero in training from the future Since: Jan, 2001
hero in training
#280: Apr 9th 2011 at 2:49:51 PM

[up][up] [lol] Hadn't thought of that.

[up] They're good eatin', for the most part. What about them?

The Periodic Table of Storytelling: Tropes in three characters or less.
Radd well, it's true from sunny Florida Since: Dec, 1969
well, it's true
#281: Apr 9th 2011 at 3:04:38 PM

I mean, whether they go to heaven and if they have souls.

"Loid, I'm pretty sure you hate your father more than I hate my mother with a hammer" - Ninten, Loids Are Not Christmas
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#282: Apr 9th 2011 at 3:14:23 PM

Interesting question, for sure. I don't have much to go on to answer that... but obviously if God wants any animals in Heaven, you can be sure they'll be there.

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
ComputerSherpa hero in training from the future Since: Jan, 2001
hero in training
#283: Apr 9th 2011 at 3:16:30 PM

Uncertain, but I think it's unlikely. There are a lot of animals in the world.

It's possible that God makes exceptions for beloved pets. No written Scriptural support for the idea, though.

The Periodic Table of Storytelling: Tropes in three characters or less.
Saeglopur Resident Hipster from Various places in the UK Since: Jan, 2001
Resident Hipster
#284: Apr 9th 2011 at 3:28:29 PM

I don't think animals have the necessary capacity for faith, belief, forgiveness, moral discernment etc. to make either general animal or species specific versions of either heaven or hell possible. Whether they are present in heaven as a part of the perfect form of the beauty of God's creation is another question altogether.

edited 9th Apr '11 3:39:57 PM by Saeglopur

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Radd well, it's true from sunny Florida Since: Dec, 1969
well, it's true
#285: Apr 9th 2011 at 3:32:01 PM

I've always believed no on both.

"Loid, I'm pretty sure you hate your father more than I hate my mother with a hammer" - Ninten, Loids Are Not Christmas
lordGacek Since: Jan, 2001
#286: Apr 9th 2011 at 3:42:31 PM

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (yep, I'm pimpin') concluded that every being, from elementary particles to humans, have a spiritual component. Only in humans, though, it means a soul.

Of course, Father Pierre didn't get into Index Librorum Prohibitorum for fanatical doctrinal purity. As far as I know, the soul is, according to Catholic doctrine, something all humans — and only humans — get at conception. Not sure if it means that souls are continually created, but I think it's like that.

And now we get to the fun part. I wrote "...and only humans". Actually, the existence of aliens isn't considered contrary to the doctrine.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#287: Apr 9th 2011 at 6:19:11 PM

I think I remember reading that the Vatican has procedures on how to baptize non-human persons.

LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#288: Apr 9th 2011 at 6:23:32 PM

Yeah, I think that's more in the case of... you're not sure if it's human or not. Or if it qualifies for baptism. Or maybe has already been baptised.

Isn't the main thing with human souls that they were 'made in God's image'?

Perhaps you could claim that, by virtue of being sapient, an alien species would also be 'in God's image'?

Be not afraid...
ComputerSherpa hero in training from the future Since: Jan, 2001
hero in training
#289: Apr 9th 2011 at 6:55:56 PM

C.S. Lewis has an essay that touches on that subject. He's a bit more pessimistic than I am, but it's very good reading.

Also, I usually find SMBC intolerably cynical, but this cartoon always makes me smile.

edited 9th Apr '11 7:27:55 PM by ComputerSherpa

The Periodic Table of Storytelling: Tropes in three characters or less.
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#290: Apr 9th 2011 at 8:44:03 PM

That is an interesting essay. I should read more CS Lewis.

Be not afraid...
Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#291: Apr 10th 2011 at 12:32:53 AM

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (yep, I'm pimpin') concluded that every being, from elementary particles to humans, have a spiritual component. Only in humans, though, it means a soul.
Yay, another de Chardin fan!

I am not sure if I agree with his ideas, or even if I understand them correctly, but he sure is a fascinating read.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#292: Apr 10th 2011 at 12:36:27 AM

I think I remember reading that the Vatican has procedures on how to baptize non-human persons.

It was mentioned in Wikipedia's article on conditional baptism, but then removed for not having a good source. (I was reading through Wikipedia's article on A Canticle For Leibowitz, which has a conditional baptism of a mutant at one point, and got linked)

edited 10th Apr '11 12:36:40 AM by Tzetze

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
Carciofus Is that cake frosting? from Alpha Tucanae I Since: May, 2010
Is that cake frosting?
#293: Apr 10th 2011 at 12:46:38 AM

Has anyone here read anything by Herbert McCabe (the Dominican philosopher and theologian, I mean, not the oarsman)?

I was reading about analytical thomism on Wikipedia, and he seems a pretty interesting person:

He became editor of the journal New Blackfriars in 1965 but was removed in 1967 following a now-famous editorial in that journal in which he criticised the theologian Charles Davis for leaving the Church. Davis left the Catholic Church publicly, denouncing it as corrupt. Mc Cabe countered that of course the Church was corrupt but that this was no reason to leave it. He was reinstated three years later, and began his editorial that month in characteristically combative style: "As I was saying, before I was so oddly interrupted..."

I kinda want to try reading something of him sooner or later - does anyone have suggestions?

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.
OriDoodle Mom Lady from East of West Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#294: Apr 10th 2011 at 9:14:28 PM

on the question of animals: i believe that the world is full of unseen spirits, angels and demons. I believe that animals all have some innate connection or awareness of this realms, just as humans do. I do not believe that animals have redeemable souls—after all dog's don't sin and Christ did not die to save the soul of my fluffy cat. I believe that all animals populate heaven in some form—and that the pets that we love are, by our interaction with them, made more "spiritual" than wild animals. I think then, that animal spirits will be in heaven, and I do not doubt that I'll see my puppy dog there. :)

Doodles
Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#295: Apr 10th 2011 at 10:15:50 PM

Eh. I'll find out when I get there. In the meantime, respect is the best course for all involved.

ComputerSherpa hero in training from the future Since: Jan, 2001
hero in training
#296: Apr 10th 2011 at 11:11:55 PM

[up] A wise and broadly-applicable concept, I think.

The Periodic Table of Storytelling: Tropes in three characters or less.
Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#297: Apr 11th 2011 at 1:16:32 AM

i believe that the world is full of unseen spirits, angels and demons

According some Jewish scripture/myths people age and their clothes deteriorate because there are little demons constantly rubbing, scratching, trying to make a mess of us and we are fortunate enough not to see them.

Just a little something to make it harder to get to sleep at night. tongue

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#298: Apr 11th 2011 at 1:32:55 AM

Thanks, Justice. I needed that.

Be not afraid...
OriDoodle Mom Lady from East of West Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#299: Apr 11th 2011 at 9:20:07 AM

^^that's really interesting.

Doodles
Rottweiler Dog and Pony Show from Portland, Oregon Since: Dec, 2009
Dog and Pony Show
#300: Apr 11th 2011 at 10:11:29 AM

@Justice: So would fancy clothes wear out faster, because demons are going "Ooh, shiny. O_O w"

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard

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