Wheel of Time: Worth it or not?

(I'm making a new thread about this, not wanting to derail the main one.)

I have a question, literature tropers. I've heard many, many things about Wheel Of Time, both good and bad. But I still can't decide whether it seems like a good series or not. What I've got so far:

Points against:

• It's the ultimate cliche story. There are very few things original in there, and 99% of the books are standard fantasy stuff.
• The series reaches a low point somewhere in the middle of the series, before getting good again at the last books. These "middle" books are somewhat boring, dealing with subplots no one cares about.
• There's some silly stuff in it. This has not been elaborated enough, though.
• Every male character is an idiot while every female character is a bitch, which doesn't leave many characters to sympathise with.
• A page's worth of dress description. A freaking whole page about a dress.
• It's fourteen books! Therefore they'd have to be REALLY awesome to make me invest on them.

Points for:

• Apparently, they really are that awesome.

And that's the only good thing about the series, really. Many times I've decided that this series is just not worth it, only to read later someone gushing how great these books are. The last time that happened was a week ago, so I've given up. I no longer have any idea about what this series is. So enlighten me, please.

Do you have anything to add to my lists? Considering all of the above (and your own experience, obviously) would you recommend them to me? Anything else you want to add?

Discuss, please.

edited 20th Feb '11 10:06:05 AM by Dealan

Robert Jordan is an uneven writer, but when he's on his game, he's really good. If you have the patience for a long series, I'd say definitely go for it- WOT is a very flawed work, but there's enough really well-done Moments Of Awesome in there to make it ultimately worthwhile.

I’ve only ever read The Eye of the World. It didn’t suck but it likewise struck me as nothing new or groundbreaking, at least not for the volumes of acclaim it received from fanboys. Really, it struck me as something of a Fellowship of the Ring carbon copy with a gender-flipped Gandalf up until the last few chapters where it began departing from the typical story. Nonetheless, I wasn’t really drawn into the world enough to want to continue, it all rather struck me as formulaic and bland, vanilla fantasy stuff.

edited 4th Feb '11 12:46:06 PM by Bananaquit

I'm steadly reading this series now. I'm at book 5 (The Fires of Heaven) currently.

Regarding your questions of investment, you can actually read the first three books and stop there, because the third one ends very well and leaves few overly obvious plot strings loose. At least that early, the books aren't holding you by your balls with cliffhangers and stuff, and you can still bail out.

The characters are easy to hate, I admit, but I rather like most of them. You have to remember that even when the women are being bitchy, they're most often showcasing the very flaws they berate others for. It's a rather subtle form of Hypocritical Humour. However, the joke is easy to miss, and many people are just annoyed by moments like that.

The story is all over the place in the first two books, but I feel is steadies a bit starting with the third. There are a lot fewer one-shot chapters that cut off to villains skulking around or something.

The prose is pretty tight most of the time, though a few action scenes confused me about what exactly was happening.

I don't know, I rather like The Wheel Of Time, and I'll probably push through it. This is just my basic impression based on 4½ books.

edited 4th Feb '11 2:10:46 PM by Kerrah

Question: How are you on Loads and Loads (and Loads and Loads and Loads and Loads) of Characters, Four Lines, All Waiting, and Continuity Porn?

The Wheel Of Time is one of those series that (after the first three books, which form a decent story on their own) is best experienced with an online guide handy to keep track of all of the Mauve Shirts, Continuity Nods, and plot points that come out of nowhere if you missed a seemingly unimportant line from six books before.

The series becomes a lot better years after you read it. At least it did in my case. After all this time, my memory has filtered out all of the chaff and I just remember the cool stuff.

I'd say they're definitely worth a try.

I am not blind to the Wheel of Time's faults, but it's still my favorite series of all time and I heartily recommend it.

In regards to your concerns:

Points against:

• WOT is not the ultimate cliche story or a typical fantasy. It's probably the hallmark of deconstructing The Chosen One in fantasy. The quest structure is dropped after the first two books, which are very Tolkienesque by design, and it becomes more complex. Plus, the influences on the setting are wildly varied across cultures Eastern and Western, not just medieval Europe like Tolkienesque fantasy.
• Yeah, books 8 and 10 really drag on and don't accomplish much, and they're part of a downward trend in books 7-11 where a bunch of new story arcs start, including two that are disliked even by most fans. But 11 and onward are great.
• I don't know what "silly stuff" means, but for full disclosure: the books may or may not include spanking, chapter-long baths, overly long dress descriptions, polygamy, and characters joining the circus. Offhand, I can't think of any other "silly stuff" at the moment, unless you count the covers.
• I never had a huge problem with the oft-criticized gender relationships and behaviors. To me, they're a natural way of depicting a setting where the male-dominance of our world's history was gender-flipped. They can be frustrating, but never unreasonably so.
• Can't say anything about that. I'm a fast reader, so length never really bothered me.

But yeah, the books are quite full of Moments Of Awesome. I respect anyone's choice to not read them, or to criticize them, but they are a major pillar of modern fantasy, and are very good books as well.

I’ve only ever read The Eye of the World. It didn’t suck but it likewise struck me as nothing new or groundbreaking, at least not for the volumes of acclaim it received from fanboys. Really, it struck me as something of a Fellowship of the Ring carbon copy with a gender-flipped Gandalf up until the last few chapters where it began departing from the typical story.

Actually, apparently that was intentional. Back when the series was first being released, Jordan was afraid that nobody would buy a book that departed too far from the traditional fantasy plot.

He made the first book intentionally cliche to hook people back then into the series.

I've read the first three books to date. What struck me about the second and third was that Jordan pulls all these plot contrivances to bring the whole giant cast together for no obvious reason other than to make the finale feel grand, then have the main villians die quickly (compared to the size of the books) and the whole thing end abruptly. Huh.

And he splits them again straight after.

He does have the excuse of the ta'veren, though.

Odpověď je pravděpodobně ne

I've read the whole thing. I'd say it's worth a read if you like long books with convoluted plots. And if you like Xanatos Cluster Fucks for plot points.

Well, I love Continuity Porn and long, convoluted plots. I often thought about picking them up, but what always kept me were a) that his characters apparently become ridiculously powerful and that b) there are huge double standards.

So, is that really that bad or is our trope page a little hyperbolic here?

There re double standards, but they're not ridiculously huge.

And only one character becomes ridiculously powerful, and he's justified in-plot, and it really doesn't help him solve all his problems.

Well, they become ridiculously powerful, but it's because of various factors, in particular being really powerful with the Verse's magic tends to come with authority. That said, Narrative Causality is almost a physical force in the Verse. There are double standards, but most of them are pointed out.

Perrin isn't all that powerful.

Mat is powerful, but not like the others- his is a more military power.

I was thinking more of what's her name. The original love interest.

Egwene?

Yeah, her. I remembered that it started with an E.

Egwene and Rand both really gain authority through power.

Elayne gains power through authority, sorta. Her authority has nothing to do with her power.

edited 21st Feb '11 5:12:15 PM by CyganAngel

Yes, those are the two I was thinking of. I was trying to avoid being spoilery.

But I like spoilering :<

Okay, I guess I could have used spoiler quotes.

Wheel of Time is fantastic if you're planning a murder—just drop the entire series on your worst enemy's head and then tell the cops you're the world's clumsiest bibliophile! It works every time!

Hehehe

I dunno, I really enjoy the series. It isn't by any means perfect, but that also doesn't mean that they aren't worth reading.

What's probably the biggest flaw in my mind is that yes, it's true that books 7-10ish are too slow, and overall not as good, but in my opinion that problem isn't as horribad as I hear a lot. Maybe it has to do with not having to wait between those books. And it really picks up and gets much better with book 11 on, so I can forgive the middle few.

And they really do get that awesome.