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Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#27: Feb 4th 2011 at 10:47:02 AM

They took it down already. Not sure if it happened before or after they shipped any.

A brighter future for a darker age.
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#28: Feb 4th 2011 at 10:49:07 AM

Seriously? I didn't think they'd cave to pressure.

deathjavu This foreboding is fa... from The internet, obviously Since: Feb, 2010
This foreboding is fa...
#29: Feb 4th 2011 at 10:50:44 AM

[up] Don't get your hopes up, they stopped selling them.

Damn, I read the comic and the apology comic, but I had no idea it'd kept going on after that. Crazy shit.

As for promoting rape culture...it seems like it would be easy to "jump at shadows" if you firmly believe it exists. I wouldn't write it off per say, but the response to a comic that doesn't seem "pro-rape" was entirely disproportionate.

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.
TheStupidExclamationMark Orbs from In ur cupboard Since: Dec, 2009
Orbs
#30: Feb 4th 2011 at 11:26:06 AM

Will these people now also start complaining about the fact that someone whose name often appears in TV series' openings is actually called Dick Wolf and therefore promotes rape?

"That said, as I've mentioned before, apart from the helmet, he's not exactly bad looking, if a bit...blood-drenched." - juancarlos
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#31: Feb 4th 2011 at 11:35:15 AM

I very much doubt it.

Although I'll never be able to hear his name the same way again.

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Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#32: Feb 4th 2011 at 12:51:21 PM

^^ Only if he rapes people a lot. Come on, presumably there are nice non-rapey dickwolves too, and I'm sure such a thing would be honest Fetish Fuel for some.

Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#33: Feb 4th 2011 at 1:47:56 PM

Non-Rapey Dickwolves sounds like a band name. In some f'd up genre.

Anyway, yeah — the shirt was ill-conceived.

edited 4th Feb '11 1:48:46 PM by Morven

A brighter future for a darker age.
Drakyndra Her with the hat from Somewhere Since: Jan, 2001
Her with the hat
#34: Feb 5th 2011 at 12:28:02 AM

As someone who has had no involvement in this whole situation at all, the way I hear it is that the main issue with Penny Arcade isn't with the comic itself, which was edgy humour, but the reaction to the criticism they got for it.

Most of my info is from the links in this tumblr, so if it's biased please inform me.

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Karmakin Moar and Moar and Moar Since: Aug, 2009
Moar and Moar and Moar
#36: Feb 5th 2011 at 8:14:05 AM

This whole thing is so *facepalm* to me, as it's basically a big huge blow-out in the feminist blogosphere that basically spilled out onto the mainstream.

It's actually all about "triggers". It's the idea that for people who have been raped/sexually assaulted, any mention of these things outside of a clinical setting (or even then!) can result in painful memories and as such should either be not done, or very specifically hidden behind a wall of some sorts.

I'm sympathetic to this argument, as in I think that one shouldn't go around and be a douche with these things, but at the same time, when this argument really blew up, the "anti-trigger" group really made me facepalm a lot.

First of all, they didn't seem to care about anybody else's potential weak points. It was all about them. Second, they were overly aggressive about it all. Third, the blog linked above, which really was the source of it all, has really become a very ugly place over the last few years. I actually used to be a regular reader. But I stopped a few years ago as the tone just became..frightening. Again, this isn't because I'm anti-feminist or anything like that, it's that I'm anti-asshole. (I actually agree with virtually all of the modern feminist arguments)

In any case, t-shirts MIGHT be taking it a bit too far, and I can see how it could be seen that way, into empowering and self-identifying pro-misogynistic elements of the community (which exist anywhere) But the original comic wasn't making light of rape or anything like that. It was making light of the "adventurers" who could care less about the horrific fate of the people that they're "saving".

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve
Karalora Since: Jan, 2001
#37: Feb 5th 2011 at 9:20:22 AM

I look at it this way:

The original joke was tasteless. But that's pretty much par for the course for PA. It was no worse than their usual "edgy" fare, and probably less outrageous than, say, the Fruit Fucker. I read it as mocking not only the goal-based nature of video game quests, where actual empathy for the victims of evil is strictly optional, but also the over-the-top Darker and Edgier monsters and concepts that fantasy writers often devise in order to show how HARDCORE!!! their setting is.

All this is not to say that those who were offended had no right to protest. Of course they did! Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing, isn't it? You have the right to say any skeevy thing you want, and other people have the right to say "Now, wait a minute, that crossed the line." Or even "How DARE you joke about the things I am sensitive about, in addition to the things only other people are sensitive about!"

Where it all blew up was in the creators' response to the protests. I don't know how often their jokes draw criticism for tastelessness or "triggering" effects, but I get the impression it doesn't happen often, and in that case maybe they should have offered a sincere apology. Or even said "You know what? We acknowledge that this one was apparently over the line in a way that past jokes have not been, but we're not going to retract it because this is our comic and if we choose our content on the basis of being inoffensive, we're letting other people run it for us. Our readers are just going to have to prepare for the possibility of being offended."

Putting out tee-shirts commemorating the joke? Definitely in poor taste, and disrespectful. I think that counts as reveling in the fact that they managed to upset survivors of a horrific crime and their advocates. And while it can be useful to have the creepy sexual harassers at a convention self-advertise, they usually manage to do it without the aid of shirts.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#38: Feb 5th 2011 at 9:31:21 AM

People have a right to be tasteless. I'm frankly sick of the culture of hypersensitivity that we live in. But you also have a right to complain, publicly or privately, and to withhold whatever business you engage in with respect to PA. You do not have the right to engage in escalating battles of rhetoric that result in death threats.

Seriously, do you actually believe that would-be rapists are wandering around buying T-shirts that advertise their intentions? Or that anyone would seriously take that PA comic as an incitement to rape people? I mean, come on. There are offensive things out there, like those absurd racial slurs the guys on that BBC car show made. Those are things worth getting mad at.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Karalora Since: Jan, 2001
#39: Feb 5th 2011 at 9:48:49 AM

You take me too literally, Fighteer. Given the shitstorm surrounding "The Sixth Slave," pretty much the only reason anyone would go to the lengths of buying a "Dickwolves" tee-shirt would be because they enjoy the offensiveness of it. And people like that are unlikely to be respectful toward women in the general sense.

Myrmidon The Ant King from In Antartica Since: Nov, 2009
The Ant King
#40: Feb 5th 2011 at 10:10:08 AM

Wasn't the guy who was raped in the comic male?

Kill all math nerds
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#41: Feb 5th 2011 at 10:34:45 AM

I'd buy a s shirt because the concept of a dickwolf is awesome.

Tongpu Since: Jan, 2001
#42: Feb 5th 2011 at 10:57:58 AM

Apparently the blogger edited the comments of everyone defending the comic to delete their arguments and call them douches.
Still, I love Shakesville. It's the best place on the web to find rape jokes.

Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#43: Feb 7th 2011 at 11:29:57 AM

They took it down already. Not sure if it happened before or after they shipped any.

I think the shirt was available for a few months before the fecal matter hit the whirling device. There where also pendants, and the logo makes me think they wanted to go for a sort of "sports team" theme with the "Dickwolves" merch.

I don't think the merch was really offensive, but I don understand how it was sort of a crossing the line aspect of the whole thing.

The comic already caused a stir. It's a little hard to believe that they thought they could basically sell references to the comic without some further backlash. Though, they stopped selling the shirt a few days before the death threats started flying, so the other side certainly did it's far share of crossing the line.

[up][up][up] Yes, also the case with the comic with the Deamon and wild boars. They didn't show any actual victims for the AT&T service robot.

edited 7th Feb '11 11:32:37 AM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#44: Feb 7th 2011 at 12:37:40 PM

I got the impression that the Dickwolves were raping a lot of people, offscreen. Again, the point of the comic was to satire players' tendency to enjoy It's All About Me or Protagonist-Centered Morality in video games, particularly MMORPGs where the inclination is to kill/rescue exactly as many people as the quest tells you to, and no more.

"You told me to kill five baby eating tentacle rapists. I don't care if there are twenty more out there - give me my reward so I can go to the next town."

Of course, this ignores the fact that there will undoubtedly be ten more players happening by shortly to do the same quest, and the fact that the creatures in question will respawn in a minute or two anyway, so a single player could literally spend his entire career standing around the town slaughtering them. You could build robots for this purpose, even.

edited 7th Feb '11 12:37:49 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#45: Feb 7th 2011 at 12:43:23 PM

I agree with Fighteer, this is about a problem with the classic MMO design, that you can never solve anything. Horrid things are going on, you kill a few people, the horrid things are still going on, you move on. They just decided to use rape to illustrate it because death in mmos is cheap.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#46: Feb 7th 2011 at 2:26:16 PM

[up][up] Yeah, why are the bot farmers always grinding gold on innocent animals and stuff? Get them to save dickwolf slaves all day instead.

edited 7th Feb '11 2:26:36 PM by Pykrete

Myrmidon The Ant King from In Antartica Since: Nov, 2009
The Ant King
#47: Feb 7th 2011 at 2:34:47 PM

Huh.

Kill all math nerds
Myrmidon The Ant King from In Antartica Since: Nov, 2009
The Ant King
#48: Feb 8th 2011 at 6:12:16 AM

So has ED commented on this yet?

Kill all math nerds
TheStupidExclamationMark Orbs from In ur cupboard Since: Dec, 2009
Orbs
#49: Feb 8th 2011 at 10:01:44 AM

I wonder if the controversy would have been this large if the dickwolves had been cuntbears...

Anyway, Urban Dictionary learns us that dickwolf has several other older meanings.

"That said, as I've mentioned before, apart from the helmet, he's not exactly bad looking, if a bit...blood-drenched." - juancarlos
Karmakin Moar and Moar and Moar Since: Aug, 2009
Moar and Moar and Moar
#50: Feb 8th 2011 at 1:20:07 PM

Ditto on what Fighteer said. The sad thing is the original comic really was extremely anti-rape, but people who don't like any mention of rape at all in our culture outside of clinical terms hijacked the debate and just turned the whole thing into rage and snark.

It actually could have been a bit of a learning experience for everybody around, and maybe get the word out a little bit more that rape is more common than we think, and that we should keep an eye for it and not socially accept it/make excuses for it, but that chance was lost.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve

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