This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.
- Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
- Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
- Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread
which covers them.
Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.
Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.
Please follow the spoiler policy rules
- tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).
Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM
Symbiote Spider-Man 2099 #5 - Honestly, while Miguel's takedown of his symbiote and Venom was clever, the finale was overall kind of a weak. I'm surprised Peter David ended it on a big plot hook with the symbiote taking over Gabriel rather than something more conclusive, especially if it's the last hurrah to the classic 2099 timeline.
The Spectacular Spider-Men #5 - Peter and Miles's fight thankfully is cut short when they recognize themselves as the real Spider-Men (and not androids) and get a chance to bully some information from Turk, while Hammerhead jumps into the Arcadium to fight the heroes with his own "flunkies". The juicier subplot reveals that Raymond Warren might be up to no good. In fact, he may not be Raymond in the first place....
Latest blog update (November 5th, 2022).I feel like it's meant to be 616, but in the time between current comic events, probably to make it more inviting for new readers.
Though it'd be funny to see the current storyline with Spider-Goblin and Vampire Miles.
Latest blog update (November 5th, 2022).So, thanks once again to Scans Daily, I'm getting an opportunity to look at the original arc of the Green Goblin, namely when Peter and Norman first learn each other's identities, and Norman gets his first memory wipe:
https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/10758592.html#cutid1
We've talked about how in the comics, Norman was the Goblin 100% and not a split personality....but this issue kinda lends some credence towards the idea that that may not have been the case. At the least, the exposure to the chemicals that changed him into his worst self (he wasn't that great, and neglectful of Harry, but it seems the chemicals made him many times worse)
Also note that Norman didn't create the Goblin Formula. He found it in the old notes of Mendel Stromm, his old partner. So it's entirely possible he botched something while creating it (it exploded all on its own just from mixing it after all).
After Peter manages to defeat him, he himself notes that Osborne can't be held responsible for what he did now that he's memory wiped. It's possible that while The Goblin was something of a second personality, but one very close to who Osborne would be if he completely embraced his worst nature. Then they kinda fully merged at some point while he was seemingly dead, but maybe the shit with his sins has them again.
Or I could just be full of shit. That's always a possibility.
One Strip! One Strip!
I mean, Norman's vow to be the greatest costumed criminal to get more money and power is meant to be a mirror of Peter getting great power and initially deciding to be a famous TV star, then vowing to be a hero after Uncle Ben dies, and finding out who the burglar is.
I feel like the split personality deal would take away from this moment, and the Goblin only started being a split personality in far later materials after the Gathering of Five, a bit after the second Clone Saga.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"Spider-Man: Reign #4
More than the Spider-Jizz I think this is where the belief that this was a bungled attempt to do Dark Knight Returns for Spider-Man came from. Most of the silliness and tonal whiplash of the preceding issues is gone.
Old red and blue quippy Spider-Man viciously dispatches 5 out of 6 of the Sinner Six while making typical spider jokes.
Recurring girl reveals herself to be Sandman's daughter as she leads the Newsie Revolution against the Reign cops. She's then shot to pieces by all of the bullets and dies in Sandman's arms while he tries to coach her through bringing her bits back together like he does.
She does drop a killer speech before she's killed, though.
Not named in this book girl: "Cut and run? I've been doing that my whole life. I'm through with that."
Sandman: "I have my orders! Now pack up! You've got absolutely no hope of —"
Not named in this book girl: "Hope? You want to talk about hope? We've got a militarized police state in front of us! A race of carnivorous monsters behind us! A city that's given away everything because it doesn't have the guts to fight! Let me tell you a thing about hope! Hope has three daughters: Anger at the state things have fallen into. Courage to fight to make things right." -unmasks- "And the third daughter is truth."
And then she's shot with all the bullets while Sandman desperately tries to stop the Reign cops.
Mayor Waters reveals that his whole plan was he'd feed... y'know, undesirables, to the goo aliens and in exchange all the other New Yorkers would get security. Can't fault the writing there, that does seem to be the way people like him think, minus goo aliens.
Venom reveals that its still holding a big damn grudge over Spider-Man ditching it that one time. Reasonable to be upset but eating a city is not a proportionate response.
Sandman decides to flip good after seeing his cement daughter die and he swipes the detonator to the suicide squad style bombs and gives it to Peter. Peter detonates the bombs which are powerful enough, for some reason, to collapse the entire skyscraper. Supposedly, this is enough to kill Venom but not enough to kill Spider-Man who was on the roof and out of webbing when he set off the bombs.
Shout out to Kraven and Mysterio who were incapacitated but not dead. Until they exploded.
I'm not sure how sympathetic we're supposed to find the Sinner Six. They've been kept in prison for years and were only released with an exploding leash in them that could even kill Sandman or Hydro-Man. Despite being coerced into fighting Spider-Man, none of them show any hesitation other than Sandman. They're victims of the Reign as much as anyone but aside from Sandman making a heroic sacrifice, they're all rather gleefully killed off.
When all is said and done, Spider-Man is back in action. The Reign cops have disbanded. The WEBB laser shield is gone. Mayor Waters is dead or fucked off somewhere. And the city immediately returned to very high crime levels.
Which, given the security vs liberty theme, is painted as better off than living in a police state while aliens eat your neighbors.
What to say about Reign? The ending ditched the tongue in cheek tone and does come off as a straightforward attempt to write bad future grim and gritty old and broken Spider-Man. So it's less interesting than when Peter just wanted to sleep in a coffin and disassociated to avoid hearing his own quipping.
I don't know if Kaare Andrews ran out of tongue to cheek or whether this was supposed to be serious all along or whether he felt he had to serious up to tie things off. The first three issues? Too ridiculous to believe it was meant to be taken seriously. Issue 4? Meant to be taken seriously.
Now I can dig into Spider-Man: Reign 2: Bad Future Boogaloo. I hear that it is leaning into the ridiculous and I'm glad to hear that.
Edited by Bocaj on Jul 20th 2024 at 9:49:40 AM
Forever liveblogging the AvengersNow to read Spider-Man Reign 2 #1 and what the fuck
Kingpin survived having the skyscraper dropped on him and ate an entire mayor. Either Miles or Harry threw Spider-Man in lotus eater prison until he’s rescued by an inappropriately friendly mini Black Cat. Everything outside of New York is dead, maybe. Kingpin wants everyone to upload their brains into computers. Green Goblin lives in the sewers with an army of sewer goblins and throws Peter back to the 90s. There is more Bush-era commentary.
Reign 2 is insane.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersYes, apparently!
I had to read it twice because it was so bonkers.
Edited by Bocaj on Jul 21st 2024 at 8:21:05 AM
Forever liveblogging the Avengers@Osborn's Memory.
Comics conflated "character loses their memory of their crimes" with "character has a split personality" a lot, and like Osborn a lot of characters like that just ended up with a second personality eventually to make things easier. The original Cheetah was like that, iirc, as was Star Sapphire.
In any case, I can see why they changed him slightly from that origin story and had Goblin eventually just be the worst inhibitions unleashed of an already evil man rather than the whole "lab accident brain damages a flawed but decent scientist businessman into wanting to be the ultimate criminal" thing. That original backstory reads a little too close to Ock's whole reason for being evil, and over time they probably wanted to make him more distinct.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 21st 2024 at 9:09:54 AM
I mean I'd say the split personality idea only really took off post Gathering of Five, and in Thunderbolts where Norman was written by Warren Ellis who didn't really know much about Norman beyond the basic details as per interviews.
Plus the Raimi movies really popularized to outside audiences that Norman and the Goblin are different people.
To the point that Wells made it canon to the comics thanks to sins juice.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"Over in Spider-Man Unlimited over on Infinity, Peter's on/off date Shay from Ravencroft is back, Pete ends up being distracted from their date by an ill-timed explosion though, which commands his attention as Spidey
Seems Marvel really are just demoting romance angles either to meaningless free to read or online books
Edited by Zarius on Jul 23rd 2024 at 8:26:59 AM
They want Spider-Man to be single to make him appealing to a certain crowd Marvel thinks is bigger than they are.
Way back in the BND era, Spider-Man felt like it was a bad harem fanfic.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"Caught up to issue 6 of Spider-Boy on unlimited. God this comic is so stupid, I love it so much
Forever liveblogging the AvengersThunderbolts-era Norman was a horrible murderous person either way, though.
It was just a question of whether he was cold, calculating and murderous or uncontrolled Goblin murderous.
The arc also had telepaths messing with his head so that he lost control and let the mad laughing Goblin drown out the evil corporate scumbag. How much of that was genuinely DID or similar and how much was psychic gaslighting is left a little unclear.
Yeah, Norman is Lawful Evil, while the Goblin is Chaotic Evil basically.
But Raimi, the MCU and now the Wells run are playing up Norman being more sympathetic and the Goblin being the domineering force that makes Norman go along with his plans.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"Norman's just another of those villains where the ride's been great, but the story should eventually end. As it did, pre-retcon.
Peter's got a great rogues gallery, but wheeling out Norman diminishes him. Even if he's the end-of-run Final Boss on most occasions.
There are characters like Doom who should probably endure 'til the last chapter of their franchise. But I don't see Norman as that core to Peter's tale.

I hope they go for some more obscure characters alongside the big names.
The Protomen enhanced my life.