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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#35301: Jun 19th 2024 at 10:45:24 AM

They're far more adamant about it for Spidey than anyone else, is the thing I find strange. Most other editorially-enforced status quos that were received badly have since been rolled back.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#35302: Jun 19th 2024 at 10:50:38 AM

Also, change is risk. If Spider-Man's success was built on this status quo, why change t? A related factor is that the company never wants these stories to end.

Norman, Otto, Kraven and the rest can never truly die or pull a permanent Heel–Face Turn. May will always be resurrected. Ben will always stay dead.

There are exceptions — over in Thor, Loki isn't what they used to be. But that's a perfect storm of a character-defining storyline, the MCU adaptation and Thor not being a headline book in quite the same way as Spider-Man.

chino514 (Apprentice)
#35303: Jun 19th 2024 at 12:15:00 PM

I wonder if somewhere out there on the internet Ben has been referred to as "Benny McCormick."

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#35304: Jun 19th 2024 at 1:39:20 PM

Over in asm we got the thebreturn of fan favorite Rek-rap, and Chasm uses his psychoactive goo to turn Peter back to normal and it also changes his costume too. He then runs off with the spear to try and save Norman from his goblin personality

Antiyonder (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#35305: Jun 19th 2024 at 2:36:58 PM

Also, change is risk. If Spider-Man's success was built on this status quo, why change t? A related factor is that the company never wants these stories to end.

Ehh. Peter being jobless came to an end after #2, Liz Allan started to respect him more after #12 and his high school days ended before the title hit 30.

Plus Marvel didn't always have success in their Silver Age. The Hulk's monthly ended after 6 issues then relegated to appearing in other titles until eventually getting his own title after an anthology mag folded.

X-Men issues went into reruns after #66 and otherwise had to settle for appearing in other books until their series made a comeback with a new line up for interest.

If Spider-Man leaving high school was a creative mistake, well it remaining ongoing throughout.

Taking a page from Madgoblin of those old Spidey Kicks Butt articles, if say the early years were more financially successful, that could easily be attributed to:

A. Not having so many Spider-Magazines. Readers just had one or two at best to focus on.

B. Pacing big stories well. Clone Saga while being more infamous wasn't the first of it's kind.

The original Hobgoblin storyline which started with a potential big bad to fill the void left by the Green Goblin's death fizzled out to the Hobgoblin just being more of a bore.

Heck much like how some Clone Saga moments had to be delayed to give more attention to Onslaught, development on the Hobgoblin for example was off-limits in any Secret Wars II tie ins.

Plus over axing supporting cast members and not even making ones that could hold attention.

Edited by Antiyonder on Jun 19th 2024 at 2:45:39 AM

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#35306: Jun 19th 2024 at 2:50:33 PM

Part of it's just how big comics as a whole were back then, too.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#35307: Jun 19th 2024 at 5:28:31 PM

Venomverse Reborn brings in the Venom from the Insomniac games of all places into 616 Knull's invasion during King in Black. Kinda cool, but the whole "this portal erases your memories" bit really emphasized how little impact the crossover would have.

#IceBearForPresident
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#35308: Jun 19th 2024 at 5:31:47 PM

From what point is Insomniac Venom from exactly?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#35309: Jun 19th 2024 at 8:12:20 PM

[up] IIRC, basically right after he ate Kraven. I'd have to rewatch the scene in SM2 to be sure of the exact timeline of events here, but Harry/Venom is shown making their "We're going to heal the world" declaration right before Knull plucks them out of the Insomniacverse to join in the symbiote invasion in 616, only for Harry to tell Knull where to shove it because, while they're both all-in on The Evils of Free Will, Harry is a Well-Intentioned Extremist while Knull just wants domination. Knull promptly sends them back where they came from after Harry correctly surmises that he's not allowed to interfere with other universes too much (which killing Harry/Venom would do), meaning that this amounted to jack squat.

Edited by TrashJack on Jun 19th 2024 at 11:18:29 AM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#35310: Jun 19th 2024 at 9:31:11 PM

[up][up] Plucked straight at the end of this scene, right before Venom leaps off. The panels even fairly faithfully recreates the city skyline.

I thought it weird that Knull could just do that, but then IIRC he did pluck Mary Jane from Ghost Spider's universe, so multiverse travel is something that a King in Black can just do. But they're not allowed, which is an interesting rule that Knull obeyed when he was eschewing his other responsibilities as Ki B.

#IceBearForPresident
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#35311: Jun 19th 2024 at 9:38:15 PM

[up]Al Ewing's Venom run has made clear that multiversal travel and general spacetime nonsense is indeed a key part of being a King in Black, so it's not at all surprising that Knull could do it. That same run also shows that the powers come with a lot of in-built limits and restraints that can very easily backfire on the King if they're misused, as well as just being extremely difficult and tricky to use safely, which probably explains why Knull followed that rule. He was trying to circumvent his responsibilities and restraints, but he couldn't flagrantly break them without great risk to himself.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#35312: Jun 19th 2024 at 10:24:38 PM

So uhhh why is Mary Jane from Spider-Gwen's universe Venom?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#35314: Jun 19th 2024 at 10:45:30 PM

[up][up]she's carnage. She got an offshoot of carnage.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#35315: Jun 19th 2024 at 10:50:11 PM

Oh. So why is Mary Jane Carnage?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#35316: Jun 20th 2024 at 1:04:30 AM

Well if Gwen's basically Venom, I guess they figured she needed a carnage, and who better then the MJ from her universe whose getting increasingly pissed at her, on top of being kidnapped by I think the Jackel for some reason.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#35317: Jun 20th 2024 at 1:29:33 AM

Yeah but what’s the lore reason on how MJ became Carnage here?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#35318: Jun 20th 2024 at 1:35:49 AM

Oh. So why is Mary Jane Carnage?

Because Awesome.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#35320: Jun 20th 2024 at 3:47:09 AM

This is def someone’s barely disguised fetish.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/c3a4fcba_2ce0_4edd_ab3b_d6f0203a87a8.jpeg

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#35321: Jun 20th 2024 at 6:21:58 AM

That tweet about Gail Simone saying she wouldn't write Spider-Man even if offered the job, presumably because of it's current editorial and state, hurts so bad. Gail would be a perfect Spidey writer.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#35322: Jun 20th 2024 at 6:23:19 AM

[up][up] "Disguised"?

Wake me up at your own risk.
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#35323: Jun 20th 2024 at 6:26:39 AM

Licking cotton...lycra...unstable molecules? I imagine that one can't be too common.

Buldogue's lawyer
SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#35324: Jun 20th 2024 at 6:51:51 AM

Licking cotton...lycra...unstable molecules?

Spider-Gwen's still using the artificial Venom symbiote as a suit so you could say it is a second skin.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#35325: Jun 20th 2024 at 11:11:55 AM

I suspect Simone's wary of it partly because of editorial restrictions and partly because some parts of the fandom have very strong views about Peter's life.

Both know what story they want to read.

If that's not compatible with the story Simone wants to write... well, Wells had a really positive reputation from his previous book, and look how that's worked out.


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