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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#35226: Jun 15th 2024 at 5:05:37 AM

Mysterio found out after OMD.

Like, him knowing was why he was kept locked in the Ultimate Universe.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#35227: Jun 15th 2024 at 7:36:28 AM

How did he get out of ultimate jail?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#35228: Jun 15th 2024 at 7:56:14 AM

[up]Never said or revealed. He just popped back up one day. Maybe you could no-prize it as the multiversal reset at the end of Secret Wars caused him to be deposited back in his home reality.

My personal suspicion is that Nick Spencer was probably going to arc weld that with the Kindred stuff like he did with Mysterio's return from the dead, but his run getting fucked over prevented.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#35229: Jun 15th 2024 at 8:12:36 AM

I mostly don’t mind that it got ignored. Spider-Men’s revelations about Mysterio having cracked easy interdimensional travel and then using it to troll a different Spider-Man once and then never do anything else significant was stupid.

And Peter happily letting Quentin get forever jailed in an alternate universe where he’d have no due process because he doesn’t legally exist all because it was more convenient for Peter’s own life… is pretty messed up from a dude who is usually better than that.

Edited by Bocaj on Jun 15th 2024 at 8:14:11 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#35230: Jun 15th 2024 at 8:36:27 AM

It's not like they were going to kill Beck.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#35231: Jun 15th 2024 at 8:38:00 AM

There are things worse than death and black site secret prisons may be one

Ultimate Nick Fury is not a nice man. He is, rather, reflexively, kind of a bastard

Edited by Bocaj on Jun 15th 2024 at 8:38:44 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#35232: Jun 15th 2024 at 9:31:58 AM

RE: USM #6 will have MJ and Richard learning Peter is Spider-Man:

I'm so ready for it! grin

(*is very much NOT ready for it sad*)

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#35233: Jun 15th 2024 at 9:47:49 AM

One is that Jackal created several Spider-Man clones, and it was widely believed the "first" Spider-Man everyone saw was one of them.

What? The Jackal didn't show up until long after Spider-Man was established

Two is that the government scarlet spider project successfully gave several operatives powers and equipment similar to Spider-Man's, and Peter Parker was revealed to have been one of these scarlet spider agents, with the strong suggestion he wasn't the original Spider-Man.

Is this an elseworld story you're talking about?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#35234: Jun 15th 2024 at 9:51:02 AM

There were Scarlet Spiders working for the Initiative in hunting down unregistered heroes post Civil War. I just didn’t know Peter was identified as one or falsely identified as one or whatever

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#35235: Jun 15th 2024 at 2:37:17 PM

Interesting. Then again, most of the stuff of that era was buried with extreme prejudice.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35236: Jun 15th 2024 at 2:47:23 PM

There are things worse than death and black site secret prisons may be one

Ultimate Nick Fury is not a nice man. He is, rather, reflexively, kind of a bastard

To be fair, Peter would have no way of knowing that Ultimate Nick Fury is a coin flip between being somewhat reasonable and an utterly amoral scumbag each day.

And Mysterio DID commit crimes in 1610, so it's reasonable for them to expect to be able to hold him accountable.

Peter doesn't know that 1610 is a hellscape of human rights violations, so he might assume they'd treat him more humanely and in proportion to the mass property destruction and terrorizing people that Beck had been doing.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#35237: Jun 15th 2024 at 4:26:01 PM

The original clone saga ended ambiguously. Was Peter Parker really the clone or not? Peter decided that he had all the memories, and the events actually happened, so he wasn't going to worry about it.

But then the 1990s series came along and revealed Ben Reiley really WAS the original Spider-Man and one we thought we knew was a clone. Now obviously this was just a ploy to mess with Spider-Man's head, but Peter Parker himself believed it until the conclusion of the 1990s Clone Saga, it's reasonable to think people who are not Peter Parker would still believe it.

But yes, Mysterio finding out Post One More day really renders it moot until the cosmic retcon is revisited to taunt the fanbase again. But yes, as far as restoring Peter Parker's secret identity, that was largely the main point of the registration scarlet spiders, with even Jay Jonah Jameson now having doubts about Peter Parker being Spider-Man or just a government pawn who used Spider-Man's reputation to increase support for the registration act back when it was still just a bill.

Buldogue's lawyer
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#35238: Jun 15th 2024 at 4:36:19 PM

[up][up]You kinda allude to it, but Nick Fury's portrayal in the OG Ultimate Universe is a prime example of how Ultimate Spider-Man frequently felt totally disconnected from that wider universe and was always blowing the rest of the setting out of the water hilariously in terms of quality. Because you would be reading Ultimate Spider-Man and seeing Nick written as this very complex, sympathetic character who had his darker side and checkered past to be sure and could be definitely hard-edged but was also a kind of mentor and even second uncle/father figure to Peter at times, the sort of person who knew he fucked up in the past and wanted to make sure his son didn't turn out the same way or wanted to give him support when he needed it. And than you'd go over to something like Ultimates and suddenly Nick would be this one-note sociopathic asshole who treats everyone around him like disposable pawns/absolute shit depending on the day, has zero empathy for others, seems mostly concerned with maintaining his power and authority no matter what, and will stoop to any low imaginable to get what he wants or deems necessary.

[up]The original Clone Saga did NOT end ambiguously. The opposite. Peter declares that he's clearly the original on the sensible basis that he's long gotten over Gwen's death but the clone acted like it was still obsessed with her, because it was made by a stalker who was obsessed with a fake image of Gwen. And Gerry Conway wrote subsequent stories declaring the "clone" wasn't even that, just some guy that Jackal made up to look like Peter. The later Clone Saga retconned all that to try and force itself through.

Edited by immortaleditor on Jun 15th 2024 at 4:38:52 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#35239: Jun 15th 2024 at 6:07:41 PM

Yeah the Clone Saga was a story about moving on from grief caused by loss but with clones and super heroes.

Gerry Conway even made it clear that the Clones were a bad idea outside of this one story and that's why he tried to kill the whole concept later on.

But Marvel and the other writers didn't get the memo.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 15th 2024 at 9:08:51 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#35240: Jun 15th 2024 at 6:38:52 PM

[up]In more ways than one.

Not just ignoring the original's message of letting go of the past and growing up instead of obsessing over what could've been, but also ignoring it's purposeful deconstruction of Gwen lovers who try and rewrite her as this ethereal, virgin perfection, portraying them through Warren as pathetic, destructive weirdos obsessing over an imagined image of what a character that basically everyone hated when she was actually around was like.

The story they saw as a way to justify getting rid of "that lame married Spider-Man who got icky and old" was one that built entirely around calling people like them creepy losers who need to get over themselves. It's literally like that meme of Garfield looking at a "no Garfield" sign and wondering who it's for.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#35241: Jun 15th 2024 at 6:44:13 PM

Yeah, and by missing the moral point of that story, they ended up condemning themselves to one of Spider-Man's worst stories.

Sure, Editorial made that shit longer than it was planned, but the premise was flawed from the start.

Especially as an attempt to get unmarried Spider-Man.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#35242: Jun 15th 2024 at 6:47:22 PM

Did we ever get a follow up on Mephisto snatching one of the Grendels back in King In Black?

#IceBearForPresident
Antiyonder (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#35243: Jun 15th 2024 at 6:51:22 PM

1. I think using it to unmarry Spider-Man did become an objective, but De Falco wanted to initially progress Peter's life while having Ben Reilly as the new young Spider-Hero.

2. I do question the rationalization of Peter figuring he's the original, but maybe he didn't know that the clones memories were fixed via RNA stuff to give him the exact thoughts.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#35244: Jun 15th 2024 at 6:52:22 PM

Fine, I misremembered. Maybe that was cope. Me being a fan of the Spider-Man brand to a fault and trying to rationalize some reason to revisit the clone saga.
I meant to type that here, but posted it in the Marvel thread!

Anyway, I've gave my opinion on Gwen Stacy shilling before, so...Silk>Spider-Gwen/Ghost Spider, Arana>Silk, but only Arana as written by Tania Del Toro and in Mayday's Spider-Girl book...she was okay in Miss Marvel, I could even forgive the mother-daughter thing, but they took away the carapace! That was her best part!

Buldogue's lawyer
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#35245: Jun 15th 2024 at 6:56:44 PM

Wait wait wait back up, Warren was actually intended as a Take That! at real-life Gwen fans? Source please. Conway really did not like her if true lol. And here I thought Superboy-Prime was petty.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35246: Jun 15th 2024 at 7:00:42 PM

Gerry Conway even made it clear that the Clones were a bad idea outside of this one story and that's why he tried to kill the whole concept later on.

But Marvel and the other writers didn't get the memo.

Nah they got the memo. The problem is they saw "bad idea" and said "sign me the fuck up"

You kinda allude to it, but Nick Fury's portrayal in the OG Ultimate Universe is a prime example of how Ultimate Spider-Man frequently felt totally disconnected from that wider universe and was always blowing the rest of the setting out of the water hilariously in terms of quality. Because you would be reading Ultimate Spider-Man and seeing Nick written as this very complex, sympathetic character who had his darker side and checkered past to be sure and could be definitely hard-edged but was also a kind of mentor and even second uncle/father figure to Peter at times, the sort of person who knew he fucked up in the past and wanted to make sure his son didn't turn out the same way or wanted to give him support when he needed it.

I don't think it's USM vs the rest of the Ultimate universe. I started reading the universe only with USM, and that's where Nick's coin-flip personality comes from.

In the other books he's just consistently an asshole. In USM he flip-flops between cackling mad villain and being more reasonable, sometimes retconning his previous behaviour to soften it.

It's in the USM issues that he tells Peter he's going to own him once Peter turns 18, telling him he has absolutely no choice in the matter and the only reason he has any freedom now is because he's a minor. Right after Norman Osborn just tried to kill MJ and died in front of Peter, as well.

Then later he tries to play it off as "oh what I meant is that when you turn 18 you get the choice to join the Ultimates, because you've got the potential, totally up to you though" which is absolutely NOT even close to what he said.

Edited by Saiga on Jun 15th 2024 at 7:01:48 AM

Antiyonder (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#35247: Jun 15th 2024 at 7:01:28 PM

Gwen fans tend to not accept the faults in the writing and often voice double standards as to why MJ is a bad fit for Spider-Man.

Like how Mary Jane is just wish fulfillment and Gwen is the girl from next door.

Beauty queen who tried and tried to get the nerdy introvert to notice her and getting snubbed (Really Peter focused on needing to save Aunt May due to her blood being contaminated with his from a previous transfusion).

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#35248: Jun 15th 2024 at 7:10:16 PM

I can in complete seriousness say I've never met a Gwen fan who acted like that. Maybe it was different in the '80s?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#35249: Jun 15th 2024 at 7:17:25 PM

Life of Reilly is pretty fascinating for a behind the scenes production side look at the 90s Clone Saga.

What a mess. I can’t even say that the Clone Saga 90s was intended to do A thing because what it was meant to do or be about or how it was meant to end shifted so much and the writers and editors changed so often and everyone is side eying everyone else’s claims

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#35250: Jun 15th 2024 at 7:23:08 PM

The weirdest clone saga retcon thing will always be Carrion, because unlike every other clone, they don't retcon back him into having been a clone. They say that Miles had a side project where he turned people into other things for no apparent reason.


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