TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Spider-Man General Discussion

Go To

This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#34251: Apr 14th 2024 at 11:11:27 PM

Okay, it was funny for that one storyline, keeping this joke just makes it creepier now since he was in her nephew's body. Granted, they aren't related IIRC, but still, ew.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#34252: Apr 15th 2024 at 6:51:24 AM

Truly the biggest sin of Superior Spider-Man is that it made the previously oddly sweet and adorable Otto/May pairing feel very weird and uncomfortable.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#34253: Apr 15th 2024 at 6:52:27 AM

I think Slott had the foresight to include Maria Ann as Otto's love interest but that's also another can of worms.

She's a cool character tho, and I'm glad Dan Slott brought her back.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mega_zxa Since: Mar, 2015
#34254: Apr 15th 2024 at 7:24:13 AM

Wait didn't Otto make Peter experience what it was like to has sex with aunt May

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#34255: Apr 15th 2024 at 7:55:33 AM

I think Norman came out the gate as Spidey's number one villain, but dying and only popping up to mastermind the clone saga took him out of the game for a while.

In fact, I don't think Norman really took his place back as the supreme Spidey villain until the end of Superior. That was a story all about how Otto would always be second to Norman.

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#34256: Apr 15th 2024 at 8:06:51 AM

I've made my feeling known before that I feel like Green Goblin is the kind of character who gets shilled as being important more than he actually is important.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#34257: Apr 15th 2024 at 8:10:23 AM

There’s been a lot of stressing whether or not Otto lives up to the other big two spider villains that I just don’t get

I’m just not interested in hierarchically ranking villains. Maybe the top nemesis but beyond that, I only care if the story is good and the art doesn’t make me want to throw the book

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#34258: Apr 15th 2024 at 8:15:43 AM

[up]x4: Not intentionally, but yes. Just after the mind-swap, Peter-in-Otto's-body was rooting around in Otto's memories in a desperate attempt to figure out how he pulled off the "Freaky Friday" Flip, in the hopes that he'd also learn how to reverse it before Otto's body gave out. Unfortunately, Peter got three of Otto's more traumatic memories (being violently abused by his father, Torbert, as a child; the laboratory explosion that fused his mechanical arms to his body; and getting his ass kicked by Spidey) instead of the one he actually wanted to see, prompting him to demand a "nice memory". Be Careful What You Wish For...

Edited by TrashJack on Apr 15th 2024 at 11:16:45 AM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#34259: Apr 15th 2024 at 9:09:41 AM

I think Norman's done a lot of impressive and funny stuff too, but people overestimate how much time he's spent with Spidey, especially post revival. He spent like five years running a fake Avengers team and trying not to kill everyone.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#34260: Apr 15th 2024 at 9:12:17 AM

Yeah, Green Goblin's use is more like Ra's Al Ghul. He's not around very much, but when he actually gets to supervillain, it's a major event.

While Doc Ock is as overused as the Joker.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Godwriter King of the Koopas from Maryland (The New Guy) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
King of the Koopas
#34261: Apr 15th 2024 at 11:47:29 AM

I think venoms been overused not dock Ock

Also Has there been a Spider-Man where all three of Spider-Man‘s archenemies norman Osborn aka green goblin Otto Octavius aka doc Ock and the venom symbiote all qualify as Complete monsters and meet the criteria in the same work?

The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#34262: Apr 15th 2024 at 12:31:28 PM

I guess the way I would say it should work is that Spidey's archenemies each tackle different aspects of his life as a Big Bad Ensemble.

Doc Ock, for as inconsistent as we're acknowledging him to be, is pretty firmly in the niche of being Big Bad for the Spider-Man part of the story; representative of, one of the more dangerous of, and certainly the most recurring and persistent of the average supervillains committing crimes, as well as embodying the science fiction aspects of the series. He's an enemy of the secret identity, not the man under the mask, and his motives are "inconsistent" simply because he himself doesn't really have a specific, overarching goal or focus. He's just a criminal making ends meet, going through life, and doing whatever crimes he feels like doing at the moment.

Part of the problem that Goblin and Venom face, I feel, is that they end up competing for the same niche of being Big Bad for the Peter part of the comic. The kind of super-personal enemy who knows Peter's secret identity, prefers going after his loved ones than any random person, and has a specific drive to ruin or kill Peter as a person, someone who's more focused on causing trouble in the soap opera slice of life aspects. Goblin had that role up until his death, which led to Venom inheriting the emptied position years later. But than Goblin came back and editorial for some reason fell in love with him and now hype him up constantly as Peter's one only TRUE nemesis. And I suppose their solution to Venom and Goblin's gimmicks kinda overlapping in this respect was making Venom a hero so he couldn't step on Goblin's toes anymore.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#34263: Apr 15th 2024 at 3:48:17 PM

While Doc Ock is as overused

Doc Ock is not overused, certainly not at the level that Joker is.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#34264: Apr 15th 2024 at 7:10:18 PM

As I understand it, Ock is kind of a borderline Starter Villain, being one of the first villains who posed a major physical challenge to defeat, which is different from being an arch-enemy or the most evil. I'm kind of thinking of a comparison here with Mr. Mxyzptlk or Metallo in that they require some clever thinking for Superman to defeat them but aren't his arch-enemy.

But I'm also thinking that maybe the best comparison to Ock is Baron Zemo - A character who thinks of themselves as the arch-enemy, but they aren't (that's Green Goblin/Red Skull). And they are both a bit too evil to be fully a Noble Demon but are markedly less evil than the real arch-enemy.

And like both of them have arcs where they start out pretending to be a good guy and become one for real... temporarily anyway.

There's even the same joke with Superior Spider-Man hating knock-off versions of the Sinister Six and Citizen V hating knock-off versions of the Masters of Evil.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#34265: Apr 15th 2024 at 7:20:10 PM

Which is funny because the Six and the Masters have shared some members haven't they?

Mostly Spidey Rogues too.

I'm sure Shocker's been part of the Six, the Syndicate, and the Masters.

I think Beetle was in the six once, and the Sydicate (which I think he founded) and then the Masters, who became the Thunderbolts.

And that's probably it.

One Strip! One Strip!
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#34266: Apr 15th 2024 at 7:24:09 PM

But I'm also thinking that maybe the best comparison to Ock is Baron Zemo - A character who thinks of themselves as the arch-enemy, but they aren't

Except Otto is a contender for the title of Arch-Enemy, he's one of Spider-Man's top three enemies. It's no different from how Leader, Abomination and General Ross have equal claim to being Hulk's Arch-Enemy.

As for Zemo, that depends on which Zemo you are talking about.

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#34267: Apr 15th 2024 at 7:45:17 PM

I'd say the big difference between Norman and Otto nowadays is they don't really give Norman crime stories anymore. The Goblin Nation was the one exception to that in recent times, but in general his stories are always just about fucking with Peter.

Otto, on the other hand, gets to be a Supervillain. He gets to scheme, have plots, go the full mile. Whoever said that he was the biggest antagonist from the hero side and not the personal side was spot-on.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#34268: Apr 15th 2024 at 8:16:08 PM

@ Cortez - I don't really disagree. Because I would think of Zemo (specifically the younger one) as one of Captain America's main rogues but not the main, main one, which is why I made the comparison with Octavius.

I think the Leader would be a good comparison also because he's a major villain but he's not the most important "personal opponent" (that's Ross) or the Evil Counterpart that has the same powers (Abomination).

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#34269: Apr 15th 2024 at 10:06:03 PM

"Doc Ock is not overused, certainly not at the level that Joker is."

Doc Ock had 3 on going series, one of which is still going, was involved in several crossover events, gets at least 3 story arcs in the latest Wells run.

I'd say Doc Ock is as overexposed as Joker. Heck, Doc Ock gets MORE on going series than the Joker does.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#34270: Apr 15th 2024 at 10:08:13 PM

Otto is on the same boat as guys like Deathstroke in that they keep trying to push the anti hero/sympathetic villain role on him no matter how his previous actions hang over him.

Wake me up at your own risk.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#34271: Apr 15th 2024 at 10:09:10 PM

Deathstroke is a pedophile while Doc Ock is an attempted mass murderer and sexual assaulter.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Godwriter King of the Koopas from Maryland (The New Guy) Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
King of the Koopas
#34272: Apr 15th 2024 at 11:57:26 PM

I’d prefer my Doc Ocks to be pure evil dicks with no moral agency issues or redeeming qualities in sight. Or at least gradually become complete monsters like have his obsession and hatred for spider man to be superior to him grow so much and become so hellbent on it that he excesses any noble demon or sympathetic traits and pulls a Ends of the Earth plot as a final act of evil revenge against Spider man before he dies.

But that’s just me.

The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#34273: Apr 16th 2024 at 5:12:40 AM

New Spider-Man Unlimited and things seem to get clearer. Someone is twisting reality by writing about Spider-Man.

The comments about fanfic make more sense now. But... who is it? Chronicler, over in X-Force had similar abilities, but they were limited to puppeting his protagonist. This is either very strong illusions or proper reality warping. And they're frustrated that Peter keeps catching on.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#34274: Apr 16th 2024 at 5:14:30 AM

Oh my god, are they pulling a Roxxon?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#34275: Apr 16th 2024 at 5:16:20 AM

You know, they just might be. Although the motive seems different.


Total posts: 38,961
Top