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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#33501: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:21:32 AM

Given how petty and stupid the government tends to be, it is on brand, really.

Wake me up at your own risk.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#33502: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:26:21 AM

This is the same Government that builds robots to kill minorities after all.

That said, what's up with this anti-vigilante law exactly?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#33503: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:27:36 AM

Since it only really comes up for Luke Cage and Miles, it’s giving the impression it’s being selectively enforced

Which would be an interesting thing to dig into if I thought that was on purpose

In Gang War a cop pulled a gun on Mayor Luke Cage and threatened to shoot him if he tried to fight some bank robbers.

Putting aside that it definitely wouldn’t have done anything except hurt his feelings, pulling a gun on the mayor!

[up] When Kingpin was mayor he passed a law forbidding superheroes (vigilantes) from being involved in crime stopping. This has extended to forbidding any citizen from doing anything except only when someone remembers the law exists

Under Fisk’s mayoral rule only the police and the Thinderbolts could fight crime. Cage promised to get rid of the law if he were elected since it’s stupid but for Reasons he hasn’t been able to.

Edited by Bocaj on Feb 28th 2024 at 9:29:34 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#33504: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:28:36 AM

....Both of them are black.

This feels like a pretty racist law.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#33505: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:34:12 AM

As portrayed, definitely.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#33506: Feb 28th 2024 at 9:53:13 AM

Part of what's so annoying is that it MAYBE could've been done as a commentary on, like, profiling and shit as you two are suggesting, but in actual practice it's obviously just because the law is the pet idea of one or two writers and nobody else wants to indulge it - and why would they, given that, again, it's fucking stupid. So you have Luke and Miles specifically acting like this law is some big fucking deal and then you have all the other supers just carrying on like usual. Like, imagine if there was a law enforced in your city against one singular person and nobody else.

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#33507: Feb 28th 2024 at 12:35:18 PM

I think it's more that a lot of writers aren't that continuity minded. It's no surprise that the only guy to really notice that stuff is Al Ewing.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#33508: Feb 28th 2024 at 12:43:13 PM

And the people above don't bother informing them, or don't push back when the writers go "that's stupid, I am not doing that".

Wake me up at your own risk.
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#33509: Feb 28th 2024 at 12:43:13 PM

In fact he brought up the law in Avengers Inc.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#33510: Feb 28th 2024 at 12:54:44 PM

aren't vigilantes already illegal

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#33511: Feb 28th 2024 at 12:58:49 PM

In the real world, yes, but superheroes are vaguely tolerated in comics universes, with some even being government sanctioned. Of course, then stuff like the first Civil War and Outlawed happen, but no one wants to talk about that stuff once it's done.

Edited by Blueace on Feb 28th 2024 at 6:01:36 AM

Wake me up at your own risk.
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#33512: Feb 28th 2024 at 3:25:37 PM

I frankly think a big part of the problem about plotlines like this, Outlawed, and Civil War is that the MU just isn't the place that can have a reasoned, even-handed discussion of these kind of super-registration plots. Mostly because for so long, the franchise has gone so hard nonstop on "THIS IS THE FIRST STEP TO MUTANT GENOCIDE THERE IS NO NUANCE" every time the concept is so much as acknowledged, so attempts to suddenly treat it in any even slightly different way fails automatically. Which itself is arguably the result of many writers over the years taking the "mutants as minorities" thing way too far and not accounting for the fact that it's not a 1:1 perfect metaphor with real life nor meant to be. So they write it like it's a law about registering ethnic minorities and not people who can shoot laser beams from their eyes, essentially applying real life logic to a fantastical world that operates on comic book tropes.

Contrast stuff like the stories listed about with how other super universes are often able to tackle the subject with surprising maturity and nuance, like the Cadmus arc in the DCAU.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#33513: Feb 28th 2024 at 5:11:05 PM

Though there is (or should be) a distinction made between registering people with superpowers and registering people who put on costumes and fight crime.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#33514: Feb 28th 2024 at 5:15:30 PM

Careful, like that could lead to some kind of civil war in the Marvel verse.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#33515: Feb 28th 2024 at 5:17:34 PM

Marvel USA is usually like one hop away from becoming a dictatorship according to some writers, really.

Wake me up at your own risk.
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#33516: Feb 28th 2024 at 5:22:18 PM

[up] Seems like USA-616 was ahead of USA-1218 by a few decades, then. The real thing looks a hell of a lot like the comics lately, minus the weirdoes in spandex and the giant, pink-armored planet-eaters.

Edited by TrashJack on Feb 28th 2024 at 8:23:14 AM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#33517: Feb 28th 2024 at 5:23:34 PM

[up][up] The mayor can order a moved up execution in the state of New York according to Superior Spider-Man.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#33518: Feb 28th 2024 at 5:32:10 PM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#33519: Feb 28th 2024 at 6:51:53 PM

The whole Cloud 9 thing where they tried to indoctrinate a teenager who wanted to fly was probably the worst example of nobody understanding how registration worked, because she wasn't a hero beforehand.

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#33520: Feb 28th 2024 at 6:56:51 PM

[up][up][up][up]One thing I like as a Canadian is apparently Canada-616 is basically a dictatorship, what with all the mutant death camps and all.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#33521: Feb 28th 2024 at 11:54:02 PM

"The mayor can order a moved up execution in the state of New York according to Superior Spider-Man." . . . New York hasn't had the death penalty since the State's Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional in 2004, and the last time the death penalty was even used in New York was 1963. Marvel new York is fucked up.

On the topic of superhero registration, I feel like it's worth noting that I think the US might be the only country that doesn't have that. Canada's always had Department H, I'm pretty sure the UK has a registration program, the rest of Europe doesn't really matter but I feel like I remember references to them registering their heroes. In most countries, the superheroes work directly for the government. It's just the US where they're vigilantes who do their own thing. And regularly cause a bunch of property damage in the process. Seriously, just let the bad guys rob the banks, they're insured for a reason and the villains can be tracked down and dealt with later in a way that won't result in more property damage than what was stolen in the first place.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#33522: Feb 29th 2024 at 12:04:03 AM

In fairness, the Avengers did tend to work with the government. Mostly independent but all their members did need to have security clearance.

The Fantastic Four also had ties to the government.

The X-Men had ties to the government in the silver age. X-Factor, Havok edition, was straight up a government run team.

The Defenders didn't have government ties but Dr Strange was pretty liberal with the mind wipes on anyone that saw the Defenders in action.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#33523: Feb 29th 2024 at 12:10:43 AM

On the other end of the superhero registration argument, Canada’s mutant death camps.

Tbh I’m for registration, as once someone can shoot lasers out of their eyes the regular Racial and LGBTQ+ arguments go out the window, as a lot of mutants and other mutates are basically walking nukes, not all of them though, as there are mutants like Ugly John who got 3 faces as his power. Even an Evil Spider-Man would be pretty dangerous.

One thing I liked about Superior Spider-Man is how Otto rightfully left the minor stuff to the police or firefighters and only dealt with supervillains. Hell I even kind of agreed when he went full supervillain applied to hero work and pulled out the minions. They were basically supercops/small military. He only got screwed because of Green Goblin and plot contrivances.

Edited by GateStarX on Feb 29th 2024 at 12:11:02 PM

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#33524: Feb 29th 2024 at 12:23:20 AM

[up] Yeah, it's tough. Cops suck, but so do vigilantes. If someone wants to fight crime, I'm inclined to think they should probably be accountable to someone. I don't think simple possession of eye-lasers should require registration, but using those eye-lasers to take down gangs probably should. Training is very valuable for that sort of thing, and police and soldiers have rules of engagement for a reason. Sometimes, taking action can do more harm than just doing nothing would.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#33525: Feb 29th 2024 at 9:50:18 AM

Seriously, just let the bad guys rob the banks, they're insured for a reason and the villains can be tracked down and dealt with later in a way that won't result in more property damage than what was stolen in the first place.

Well, you have to factor deterrence into the equation. If bank robberies are seen being foiled by superheroes, it makes the prospect seem riskier and less attractive to would-be bank robbers. Whereas if the superheroes stand by and let the bank robbers get away, there will be some folks who will feel emboldened to try it themselves.

It's a similar argument that exists around high-speed chases. Some people feel the police shouldn't give chase if someone tries escaping in a car, because of the danger such chases pose to bystanders. Others argue that, if not giving chase became standard practice, we'd see a lot more people peeling out to escape arrest, knowing no one would be following behind them.


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