This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.
- Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
- Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
- Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread
which covers them.
Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.
Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.
Please follow the spoiler policy rules
- tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).
Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM
Ironically, for as lame as his costume was, Ultimate Shocker was one of the best incarnations in terms of writing. Mainly for the big conclusion of his subtle character arc where it turns out Spider-Man's been driving him completely fucking actually insane by constantly foiling his plans and beating him up, culminating in him having a nervous breakdown and capturing Peter to sadistically torture him. It's an absolutely mental and brilliant deconstruction of both the Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain and the entire snarky jokester aspect of Spider-Man himself.
Edited by immortaleditor on Jan 10th 2024 at 3:24:15 AM
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I want to slap him until he learns some style
Looking at him fills me with unfathomable disinterest.
Edited by Bocaj on Jan 10th 2024 at 6:53:40 AM
Forever liveblogging the Avengers![]()
Nah, I disagree.
That was Bendis addressing a problem purely of his own invention in an extremely hamfisted way.
Plenty of villains have done the same motive as Shocker before him, that wasn't anything really original. It's just "you treated this guy was a joke?! PSYCHE"
My brother in Christ, you made the joke
That's 90% of the characters in Ultimate Spider-man, frankly.
Despite the storylines in general being good, and Peter/Aunt May/MJ being good, most other characters just flat out sucked.
This only kind of dawned on me when I was thinking of how 1610 Spidey could continue post secret wars and realizing pretty much his entire rogues gallery is way less interesting than their 616 counterparts and there were so many iconic storylines that couldn't be adapted because of how dirty Bendis did all the characters involved.
I think that is a fair criticism of OG Ultimate Spider-Man. While I don't agree on Shocker, there are a lot of villains that Bendis wrote very poorly and clearly didn't care much about beyond their role in the story as obstacles for Peter. There were a few villains that got good portrayals - Green Goblin, Kingpin, Doc Ock - but just as many were reduced to one-note jokes that really didn't have much to them (e.g., Kraven) or were totally unrecognizable (e.g., Carnage) or worst of all both at once (e.g., Deadpool), and even ones that were handled well tended to just kind of drop off unceremoniously; Kingpin abruptly dies to Mysterio in a totally random issue with almost no fanfare whatsoever, for instance. Hell, sometimes it even extended to a few heroes, like Doctor Strange being made into a prima-donna loser.
Bendis in general seemed to want to focus much more on Peter and his family and friends than the villains and wider hero community. Some of it was probably intentional. A big aspect of Ultimate Spider-Man was a theme of Peter being a very small part of a much bigger universe/war/situation and making his first baby steps into that world as his coming of age story; you had Nick Fury regularly telling him he was in over his head (and later admitting he was trying to mold Peter into growing up to be basically Captain America 2.0), older heroes like Morbius and Daredevil getting on his ass for trying to be a superhero while still in high school, Peter encountering people like Blade or Man-Thing on random adventures and never seeing them again or getting anything about them explained, run ins with villains whose motives he never learns, etc.. And I think this was a good thing, but it could go too far and make everyone outside the core cast seem very flat and under-developed.
I still don't know what the point of bringing Francine back and trying to make her a thing. Why was a female Electro needed? What was Slott even trying to accomplish with that? Trying to introduce a character akin to Electro's daughter from Spider-Girl without actually doing any time progression?
At least Carolyn had traits that helped her really stand apart from Otto. Francine is literally just written like a gender-flipped Max.
Edited by immortaleditor on Jan 10th 2024 at 8:50:13 AM
She also lacks what little experience Max has from his years battling Spider-Man.
Peter was able to take her out by setting off water sprinklers. Something Dillon has actually become too smart to fall for.
One Strip! One Strip!Re: Mysterio
If he's an established hero in the Ultimate 6160 setting, it's almost certainly a scam.
Not just because it's Mysterio and MCU has already played with that idea, but also because the starting point of 6160 is that the genuine heroes have been removed by the Maker sabotaging their origins.
Anyone left before Ultimate Universe (e.g. Hulk or Captain Britain) is someone who wasn't a threat to him. Either they weren't genuinely heroic or they were actively working for him, as part of his "running both sides" schemes.
I can see Quentin fitting smoothly into that sort of grand scheme.
Plus the Maker would be aware of who Mysterio is typically considering they are fellow multiverse travelers.
No, I still don't know how Quinten Beck got a portal to the Ultimate Universe.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"Francine has a good personality that's arguably a lot deeper than Elektro's. She's fun whenever she's trying to have fun as a supervillain and annoyed at Beetle's attempts at girl bossing.
That alone makes her worthwhile.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
I think that, outside of the example I mentioned, she might also be a bit smarter than Max.
Give her time to learn her powers, and teach her to be more wary of water hazards, and she might achieve the levels of power Max was always capable of, but never had the diligence to reach.
As for (New) Ultimate Mysterio....him scamming everyone into thinking he's a hero is his oldest bit across the multiverse, so I'd be more shocked if he was truly sincere this time.
Like, it's how he started his career in 616.
One Strip! One Strip!Max seems kind of perpetually stuck in wanting to become an electric god and not really having any goals beyond that.
Francine, by contrast, has a lot more believable motives as being a criminal and famous.
Being as she's second string Electro, she has a place to go.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.I'm just waiting to meet Earth-6160's Paul.
"He's kind of... intense..."
"Well, his father really went off the rails. Some sort of cult with real magic powers. Paul worked out just how bad it was getting and Iron Man got involved, but the homicidal old #^*$>^ refused to come quietly. I mean, Paul did the right thing, but the guy was still his dad.I think the therapy's helped, though. And marrying Flash, of course. They are such a cute couple."

He didn't wear a costume at all, just some glasses
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."