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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#32826: Dec 29th 2023 at 1:47:42 AM

People keep mentioning cuckolding but "starting a new relationship after being separated for (subjectively) years" isn't quite that, is it?

It absolutely sucks for Peter, who only experienced a gap of months, but it seems unfair to MJ (and, yes, Paul) to talk about it that way when it had been years, she was trapped in a different world and she had no expectation of ever seeing Peter again.

And that assumes that her relationship with Paul was actually romantic - has that actually been confirmed? It was deliberately ambiguous for a very long time.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#32827: Dec 29th 2023 at 1:50:04 AM

Hey wait a minute.....

Oh my god, they Avengers 200'ed MJ.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#32828: Dec 29th 2023 at 1:53:30 AM

Nah. That was much worse.

Paul didn't mind-control anyone into a relationship. Peter certainly didn't want to leave MJ there. And she's not Paul's mother.

Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#32830: Dec 29th 2023 at 2:03:16 AM

"Writers are getting way too comfortable inserting cuckolding into their stories lately" The solution to that is actually to push them into inserting polyamory. It worked for the X-Men, right?

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#32831: Dec 29th 2023 at 2:16:24 AM

Peter/MJ/Felicia as the new Logan/Jean/Scott?

I'm sure this was mentioned on the thread before. The only question is what Aunt May would think...

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#32832: Dec 29th 2023 at 2:22:17 AM

Paul and MJ's relationship hasn't been made explicit...they're sharing a bed in one of the Jackpot set-up stories and reach out to hold one another's hands out of grief, but they're not exactly snuggling either, and are sleeping on opposite ends of the bed completly distanced from one another (except the hand holding, but they're not even attempting to look at each other)

Until there's a kiss or until MJ says "I love you", there's nothing there that says she's with him under any other sort of obligation other than to baby/nurse him and help him adjust to life on this Earth and to get over the loss of the kids.

I mean...Rabin did chain her to Paul and the kids, it's written right there on the page, so no matter what she thinks of herself, she has no legitimate control over her actions, why people insist that has nothing to do with it and she simply gave up on Peter when that is out of character for her is baffling...and telling.

The truth is we will never know, for sure, if MJ would have ever legitimately given up on Peter, as all the instances where she has have always had something to do with magic.

MJ overcame Mephisto's spell, she'll overcome Rabin's chains. Simple as that.

Edited by Zarius on Dec 29th 2023 at 3:54:42 AM

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#32833: Dec 29th 2023 at 2:34:30 AM

Edit: Nevermind, misread something

Edited by Zarius on Dec 29th 2023 at 3:07:57 AM

Kurus576 Since: Aug, 2015
#32834: Dec 29th 2023 at 5:05:39 AM

Look at this point, it’s obvious Paul an MJ are together. They been seen in bed together for Pete’s sake. If they’re not together this whole story makes no sense. And marvel aren’t going to bring magic mind control into it precisely because it makes things too close avengers 200.

And the get to the problem with Paul, his presence and this story destroys MJ’s character. You could sell me on them getting together, if Zeb had put any effort into explaining what she was going through or her thought process. But when she get back she shows zero conflict in choosing Paul over Peter. And zero empathy for Peter and what he’s going through. To leave this story in continuity is basically say that MJ never really loved Peter, and that’s unacceptable.

As for Paul, he’s a useless empty character who only exists to push this bullshit storyline. Why shouldn’t he die? It’s not as if he’s a real person.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#32835: Dec 29th 2023 at 5:08:40 AM

MJ is ridiculously shitty to Peter, and really doesn't explain why at any point. That's something I don't think is easy to move past without addressing, unless you admit that the way the characters interact with each other doesn't actually matter issue-to-issue.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#32836: Dec 29th 2023 at 5:12:52 AM

Plus it’s also gross that the writers are still forcing Peter to keep hanging out with those two.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#32837: Dec 29th 2023 at 5:18:08 AM

[up][up][up] Again, read the book...MJ was chained to Paul and the kids by Rabin, it's there, it's in the books, READ it, she did not have any sense of conflict with choosing Paul over Peter because she is under a spell. It's right there, why do you wilfully ignore it? All of this is so easily fixable.

As I said, MJ and Paul may have shared a bed, but they did not look each other in the eye and were as far apart in that bed as you can see. Even the way they held hands wasn't indicative of anything romantic, it was just emotional support and one feeling sorry for the other coping with what they lost.

Until MJ kisses him or says "I love you", neither of which has happened at any point, then to me they're not together and are just there out of obligation. You won't convince me otherwise.

I don't put much stock in fans choosing to think Marvel will avoid Avengers#200 again...because they've done far worse over the years and decades than that and left it in.

Sins Past was reversed through very convoluted but satisfactory means after 17 years, so yes, I have every confidence MJ and Paul's situation will be resolved, and hopefully in far less time than it took Sins Past.

Edited by Zarius on Dec 29th 2023 at 5:18:22 AM

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#32838: Dec 29th 2023 at 6:24:29 AM

Part of why it's so blatant that Paul is just a Diabolus ex Machina to keep Peter and MJ apart is that his "relationship" with MJ is so half-baked and nigh-nonexistent. They barely seem to even tolerate one another's presence, and the story seems to be in a bizarre middle ground where it wants them together but not "too" together. They never kiss, snuggle, have romantic conversation, talk about their issues, or God forbid have sex. The story even goes out of it's way to emphasize that they've apparently never been physical by having their kids be nothing but constructs that they had no role in creating.

Paul as a character has no head or tail beyond being a roadblock that separates Peter and MJ and weakly justifies them both not being together and MJ treating Peter like shit in a bad attempt to try and make readers hate her.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#32839: Dec 29th 2023 at 6:37:25 AM

Paul is obviously just an obstacle to getting in Peter and MJ's way.

I'm not gonna deny that.

I still think it's a waste of time to murder him pettily, because even the time that could be spent conceiving that death is time wasted.

He's not worth it. Just forget him and never bring him back.

That's what I'm saying. Everyone wants him to die forever and painfully and I'm just like, I got better shit to do than waste the energy making you dead.

Like, that time could be spent watching paint dry.

He ain't worth it. At all.

Plus, I still think it'd both set a bad precedent (writers will start doing that to characters they don't like even if the fans do because they think it's ok after doing it to a character they do like) and that they'd learn the wrong lesson completely (as they are wont to do).

Just write him out and forget him. Death is noticeable. It highlights him.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32840: Dec 29th 2023 at 8:10:26 AM

I wish the x books hadn’t validated Logan’s creeper obsession with Jean

Yeah woo poly hinting but if only they’d chosen a different love triangle

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#32841: Dec 29th 2023 at 8:18:07 AM

Well, Emma wasn't around, but they could probably get someone else...

Wake me up at your own risk.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32842: Dec 29th 2023 at 8:31:38 AM

Emma wasn’t around? Why do I keep seeing her in scans being in the loud council meeting room and making decisions at people?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#32843: Dec 29th 2023 at 8:33:31 AM

I'm pretty sure she and Scott are still a thing.

He's had romantic moments with both Emma and Jean.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32844: Dec 29th 2023 at 8:35:21 AM

Gee Scott why does your mom let you have two doms

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#32845: Dec 29th 2023 at 8:36:07 AM

Topic shift, is Peter a top or bottom?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#32846: Dec 29th 2023 at 8:39:18 AM

Well he did used to do web bondage with MJ

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#32847: Dec 29th 2023 at 8:49:42 AM

What [up] said. I feel like Peter and MJ probably, uh, take turns.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#32848: Dec 29th 2023 at 9:47:13 AM

Jesus, that sounds like an abysmal idea. A story designed solely and entirely to shit on other stories is a terrible story.

Wait, really? Aw geez, I was pretty proud of it... sad

Paul finds out there are still some survivors on his world. He goes back to help them out in any way he can, to try to help his world live again. Boom, done, he's gone, the people who hate him never have to see him again, and no one has to sit through a shitty story whose only purpose is to complain about another shitty story. Because I can't think of anything that would be less enjoyable to read than a story dedicated to talking about how bad another story is.

Actually, this wouldn't be a bad way to deal with him either. Honestly, I just want to stop thinking about him, I'll take literally any story.

I think Paul would probably not get the same treatment from anybody but Zeb Wells, though.

I'd compare it more to Judas Traveller, where he went from an omniscient spirit to a delusional illusionist once the story changed and time had passed.

Or how about Wayep, also created by Wells? I think Kieron Gillen was trying to do something with him in Journey into Mystery, but I doubt it went anywhere...

Realistically, what will happen is that MJ and Paul will break up by the end of Wells' run, and the next writer just won't bother using him. Wells will have MJ and Paul break up to clear the board for the next writer to do whatever they want with MJ. And the next writer will just ignore Paul, in favour of their own preferred supporting characters.

Yeah, I'll take this too.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#32849: Dec 29th 2023 at 10:03:58 AM

Here's a theory: MJ and Paul are in a romantic relationship, it's just that Paul's asexual, so they don't do as much physical intimacy.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#32850: Dec 29th 2023 at 10:07:24 AM

Even money says that Paul will suddenly be revealed to have been a Skrull this entire time, he'll declare that he has to return to Tarnax II because his planet needs him, and then (completely off-panel) his space bus will crash thanks to being fender-bendered by Galactus's gargantuan Worldship on the way back there.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary

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