TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Spider-Man General Discussion

Go To

This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31926: Nov 7th 2023 at 11:57:43 PM

Yeah we discussed that particular Spider a while back, funny.

Random topic, but does anyone still remember that nepotism Spider-Man comic? The one with JJ Abrams and his son?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31927: Nov 7th 2023 at 11:58:42 PM

I'd completely memory holed it until now.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31928: Nov 8th 2023 at 12:04:53 AM

I actually read it and jeez, it's another one of those "Spider-Man fights an Iron Man esque villain" comics again.

Also being a shitty dad to his son. And we JUST discussed Earth X Peter who would prefer a son over Mayday.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 9th 2023 at 4:05:12 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#31929: Nov 8th 2023 at 12:11:50 AM

Hilarious just how despised that comic is.

That book's kid is definitely Peter's most hated kid.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31930: Nov 8th 2023 at 12:11:59 AM

The only thing I really remember is Washed Up Tony Stark being hilarious in it.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31931: Nov 8th 2023 at 12:14:26 AM

[up][up] The nepotism is really apparent and Ben came off as a self insert in this one.

Even getting a goth GF.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#31932: Nov 8th 2023 at 12:34:14 AM

The thing I don't get the most about that comic is why Peter's son is raised by Aunt May, who I'd think would be too old for that.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 8th 2023 at 3:34:26 PM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31933: Nov 8th 2023 at 12:35:56 AM

It's an alternate continuity TBF so maybe she's a bit younger.

Still a pretty shitty thing to do tho.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31934: Nov 8th 2023 at 6:19:03 AM

Honestly, I don’t even inherently object to the idea of Peter being a poor father, at least initially. He’s already a majorly flawed person who has spent a lot of years improving himself, and learning to be a proper parent would be another step in that. Like how in Life Story, he’s initially a very absentee parent who let’s his addiction to superheroing distract him from his family and a big point of development for him is growing past that and making things right.

But one can go too far with it and Earth X and the Abrams Spider-Man comic both go too far. The former so obsessed with Gwen that it makes Peter look like a pathetic, misogynistic loser who peaked in college and resents his daughter for not being of the “proper stock” and the Abrams comic taking him from prone to letting work distract him to outright neglectful and leaving his son for his decrepit aunt to care for.

I’d say Earth X is far worse about it though, because the Abrams Spider-Man at least acknowledges Peter’s neglect as a flaw, whereas Earth X’s creators seemed to think that Peter was totally justified in how he acted because that’s how they felt.

Edited by immortaleditor on Nov 8th 2023 at 6:20:11 AM

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31936: Nov 8th 2023 at 9:12:28 AM

Holy shit wow, they just keep digging.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#31937: Nov 8th 2023 at 9:16:26 AM

[up] Thankfully, The Simpsons has helpfully illustrated how well trying to dig one's way out of a hole (literally, or as Spider-Office is demonstrating, metaphorically) tends to go. Spoiler Alert: Not well.

Edited by TrashJack on Nov 8th 2023 at 12:16:51 PM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#31938: Nov 8th 2023 at 9:17:17 AM

"I trusted him and helped him but then discovered he was a villain" is a classic plot twist, though. And that is how previous issues tried to portray this.

The difference is that the hero usually stops the villain before they actually kill everyone, so doesn't have to live with the guilt.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31939: Nov 8th 2023 at 9:28:47 AM

Don't be fooled, digging this hole is the point, they are trying to defame MJ.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#31940: Nov 8th 2023 at 9:32:47 AM

[up] Doesn't really seem like it's working very well then. MJ's still seen as the definitive love interest for Peter (Insomniac's video games and the Spider-Verse movies are openly running with this, and both are reaching far wider audiences than the comics are doing), while I guarantee you that the vast majority of Spider-Man fans don't even read the comics, and so are blissfully ignorant in regards to anything to do with Paul (the lucky bastards).

As for those who do read the comics, it seems pretty clear that they're angry at the writers and editors for all the Character Derailment (but not enough to stop buying Spider-Man comics, I guess), not Mary Jane.

Edited by TrashJack on Nov 8th 2023 at 12:34:44 PM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#31941: Nov 8th 2023 at 10:34:15 AM

[up][up],[up]:

And it's like, what exactly are they getting out of this?

Like, even if they don't give a rat's butt about readers' (very correct) opinion, I'm not exactly getting the feeling that this particular run of ASM is doing well financially, so even if they're in this for the money, they're just giving readers all the more reason not to spend money on comics. (And save up on tickets and games for Spider-Things that aren't the comics.)

Actually, if we look at this MJ defiling from a spiritual angle (I know, it sounds weird, just humor me), the editors aren't really doing themselves any favors because they're pissing on a fictional character. Are they so old and grumpy and set in their ways that dumping on a fictional character that can't actually interact with them just makes them feel good or something about themselves? Because if so, that's just plain sad.

And I'm under the belief that lashing out at anyone, fictional or otherwise, only really hurts you in the long run, not physically, but mentally. Like it poisons your mind and your line of thinking.

"I trusted him and helped him but then discovered he was a villain" is a classic plot twist, though. And that is how previous issues tried to portray this.

Honestly, Wells ruined this classic plot twist so hard, I wouldn't hesitate revealing that Paul was just lying through his teeth.

  • He knew his father was pure evil and he knew the kids were fake. But he helped his father anyway because he thought they would conquer the world and not make it 120% uninhabitable and his Rabin was so deep in the "Fake Mayan Death God" rabbit hole that he figured Paul outlived his usefulness and just sicced demons at him just because.
  • And Paul knew the kids were fakes just to be Rabin's eyes and ears, but dared not to say anything to MJ out of fear that she would leave him for dead, so he used microchips (either in the back of her head or embedded deep in the circuitry of her Jackpot bracelet?) so he can lightly mind control her from afar, hence the hostility between her and Peter throughout the run. When the kids evaporated into nothing, his Big "NOOO!" was because he thought he lost his bargaining chips, but the mind control has become so effective that he can leave it on autopilot without any worry.

I'm freely aware that they'll never reveal anything like this and would rather just sweep Paul under the rug, but I don't care.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Nov 8th 2023 at 1:34:38 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31942: Nov 8th 2023 at 10:38:55 AM

If Paul is using microchips to control MJ, I hope Peter earns the Power of Love and stabs him with it

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31943: Nov 8th 2023 at 10:39:32 AM

They def want Paul to be MJ's guy in the chair for her Jackpot series.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31944: Nov 8th 2023 at 10:42:05 AM

That's going to be very hard for him to do with a sword through him.

It'll poke into the back of the chair

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31945: Nov 8th 2023 at 11:12:50 AM

Paul is still one of the most hilarious aspects of this run. Like, how do you fail THAT spectacularly with a character? Everything about him is seemingly built to make everyone despise him on sight, and he has not gotten one redeeming quality since his introduction.

He’s not likable in any sense, yet the narrative worships the ground he walks on. He’s supposed to be a Nice Guy but instead comes off as insufferably smug and self-righteous. He’s supposed to be romantically involved with MJ, but they have nonexistent levels of chemistry and he clearly exists purely to keep her and Peter apart. He’s directly responsible for the deaths of millions of innocents in a way that’s entirely his own fault, but the comic makes every excuse for him. He’s supposed to have loved his “kids” but the comic itself cared so little it couldn’t even give them consistent names, so they’re just a lazy attempt at strangling sympathy out of the reader.

Everything about him is embarrassing. And y’know… one of my favorite things in comics is when writers take bad or underused characters and do cool things with them. Silk went from an embarrassing Mary Sue to an actually cool, likable, and fun addition to the Spider-Family after Robbie Thompson wrote her. Guys like Peter David and Al Ewing have practically built their careers on taking neglected or misused characters and abandoned continuity ideas and making them awesome; David’s X-Factor, one of the best Marvel books of the 2000s, was stocked near-entirely with nothing but C-and-D-List X-Men characters that most writers had forgotten and most fans had hated. I’ve seen some of the most despised characters in comics transition into beloved fan favorites. Wells himself has done this! One of the most acclaimed books of his career — Hellions — was all about doing this and managed to make Z-List characters like Greycrow or Nanny and Orphanmaker into fantastic additions to the X-Men cast that I hope get many more appearances now.

The fact that I physically cannot picture any world where Paul gets this treatment speaks volumes. I cannot imagine ANY writer salvaging him in anyway whatsoever. The character is a rod of plutonium. He has no redeeming aspects from a writing standpoint and no way you could use him in an in-depth way without completely retconning this run from existence and if you’re going that far what’s even the point. Any avenues I can perceive for salvaging this run itself require killing, heel turning, or exiling Paul.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31946: Nov 8th 2023 at 11:26:37 AM

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/paul_hate.png

You can tell even the artists paid for this story hated Paul and shipped Peter and MJ.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#31947: Nov 8th 2023 at 11:46:26 AM

The levels of indifference from the very staff is pretty damning.

Wake me up at your own risk.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#31948: Nov 8th 2023 at 12:36:05 PM

Umh actually this run on ASM has been doing well. Part of it is of course that unlike Spencer's run which wasn't controversial, this one is which generates more clicks.

But part of is it came in the worst possible tine. No way home, marvels spiderman 2 and across the spiderverse coming out helped peak interest so any run at this time would do well.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31949: Nov 8th 2023 at 12:38:46 PM

Imagine getting into Spider-Man comics because of those products and you read an issue where Spider-Man is sounding like an incel.

Awkward.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
knightstorm Since: Feb, 2022
#31950: Nov 8th 2023 at 1:12:45 PM

The best thing to do at this point in ASM...is to reveal that"MJ" is really Mephisto in disguise...and the real MJ is out there somewhere. Peter can find her and reveal the truth. Paul has a nervous breakdown...and ends up in a straitjacket.


Total posts: 38,961
Top