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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31651: Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:14:11 AM

Yeah, that was a dark time for a lot of comics. Most have escaped it by now. Post-OMD Spider-Man is pretty much the last holdout of that whole era.

BND in general still boggles the mind. “We want to return to a Lighter and Softer era of Spider-Man!” and then the first things they do are a string of some of the darkest, bleakest, most graphic stories the book has ever done. Shed is the one everyone mentions because of how over the line it went, but that same period had shit like Grim Hunt, Rhino’s wife getting murdered, Freak and Paper Doll, Doctor Octopus becoming mutilated and crippled and trying to destroy the world for his “legacy”, Electro using populist language to trick people into helping him commit murder, and all sorts of other dark and nasty stories. Even the comparatively lighter stuff ended in extraordinarily depressing ways, like Sandman’s Gauntlet arc ending with him losing his daughter to CPS and it being driven home she isn’t even his real daughter at all, as well as implied that he killed her mother in a psychotic episode and is repressing it.

It really was all so bizarre. Post-OMD has probably been the bleakest, saddest period of Spider-Man’s life but they keep acting like it’s a bubbly and upbeat return to the teenage years. The Spencer run even made fun of this with Peter acknowledging under torture from Kindred how he keeps trying to talk like everything is fine and he’s moved on while never actually healing or improving.

Edited by immortaleditor on Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:22:12 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31652: Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:20:12 AM

It really says a lot when as divisive a writer as Dan Slott is, his run managed to salvage Spider-Man after that mess.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#31653: Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:24:59 AM

Has anyone managed to salvage Sandman's wider Heel–Face Turn since then?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#31654: Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:28:29 AM

I liked the relatively recent story that indicates Sandman is probably going to live forever and is faced with his eviller future self, ending in him making a pledge to never become like that and reaffirming his frenemy-ship with Spider-Man.

There’s a sweet point where he’s in the hospital believing he’s going to die (his powers are actually evolving to a point that gives him immortality) and Peter visits him to make sure he doesn’t die alone.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:29:52 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31655: Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:29:30 AM

So uhh what happened to Sandman's daughter Keemia?

That's one of the few BND stories I liked.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31656: Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:30:57 AM

Their attitude pretty much seems to be Broad Strokes saying “Sandman has a daughter, that daughter is Keemia, he loves her and wants to support her but can’t because of his criminal lifestyle, and nothing else established in that arc matters or happened”, which is probably for the best.

Keemia has just kinda not been mentioned since Ends of the Earth though. Adaptations have used her though, like the “Marvel’s Spider-Man” cartoon and the Insomniac games just had her as a big part of Flint’s life.

Edited by immortaleditor on Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:34:16 AM

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#31657: Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:41:45 AM

Is she the same daughter who turned up in Reign?

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31658: Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:43:04 AM

No, Keemia is adopted.

And I think she came in after Reign was made.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 12:43:17 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31659: Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:46:00 AM

Yeah, Keemia was made way after Reign and is nothing like Susie Marko (Sandman’s daughter from Reign, who had superpowers and was a rebel delinquent). She does seem to have been loosely inspired by the Reign character and adaptations and elseworlds seem like they’re going to start just conflating the two (like how the cartoon version of Keemia mentioned above gets superpowers and becomes a villain herself).

Edited by immortaleditor on Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:47:01 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#31660: Nov 2nd 2023 at 9:52:33 AM

I like the idea of villains having kids who may or may not make the choice to follow in their parents’ footsteps (or become heroes, or somewhere in between), and seeing how the villains themselves react to their kids becoming like them.

It’s one of the big things I like about Janice Lincoln. I wish she and Tombstone got adapted more. It’s also why I think Dylan is the best thing to happen to Eddie and Venom and a shakeup the character sorely needed.

But it’s among the several reasons I disliked The Shed killing Billy: he and Connors’ relationship wasn’t just the most interesting thing about Curt, JMS had just done the Lizard Jr. thing which I thought had potential. So I like their current situation, even if it’s kind of a copy of the Man-Bat Family situation.

So I’d be down for Keemia coming back and having sand powers like in The Reign, and seeing what that does for Marko as a character.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31661: Nov 2nd 2023 at 10:03:02 AM

Have you ever heard of the Bombshells from Ultimate Spider-Man? I think they might be of interest to you.

They are a mother and daughter supervillain duo, but the daughter went through some interesting character work.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 1:03:34 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#31662: Nov 2nd 2023 at 10:07:17 AM

I haven’t, I’ll check them out.

Though it’s more that I enjoy seeing children become important to established characters in ways that shake them up and change them than necessarily parent child supervillains pairs in general.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#31663: Nov 2nd 2023 at 10:10:35 AM

At least Billy got resurrected. And Curt didn't even have to sell his marriage to Mephisto.

Antiyonder (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31664: Nov 2nd 2023 at 11:17:20 AM

Incidentally when doing some rereading of SG last year and Untold Tales, some of the classmates like Jason and Tiny are known for having been included in Spider-Girl #10. I even remember the solicits way back in 99 describing it as a crossover with U To SM. Which yeah Pat Ollife did art for both.

But yeah, Mayday's teacher whom is mentioned to have been Pete's teacher is also another carry over:

- https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Mrs._Winterhalter_(Earth-616)

- https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Spider-Girl_Vol_1_90

Additionally yeah, further stories set before say Gathering of Five I also headcanon as part of MC 2 such as some of Webspinners Tales of Spider-Man, the first 4 issues of Spider-Man/Human Torch (Maybe those Clone Saga flashbacks in #5) and such.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#31665: Nov 2nd 2023 at 11:21:13 AM

Going back to the Venom/Carnage books...

Looking at advance material for the new Carnage book, I'm not sure how I feel about Cletus and Carnage continuing the cosmic slaughter.

I know there's got to be some power creep to keep pace with Venom / King in Black, and it's certainly not the first time he's been a massive threat.

But I think I prefer my Carnage more street level and genuinely scary. And yeah, I know that ship has sailed.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31666: Nov 2nd 2023 at 11:23:55 AM

"Though it’s more that I enjoy seeing children become important to established characters in ways that shake them up and change them than necessarily parent child supervillains pairs in general."

Oh you're in luck then, she goes through an arc where she finds out she enjoys being a hero more than villain, and comes into conflict with her mom who still wants her in the supervillain gig.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31667: Nov 2nd 2023 at 12:07:10 PM

[up][up]Yeah, definitely one of my biggest criticisms of the turns the symbiotes have taken in recent years is the ridiculous creep into gigantic cosmic scale instead of staying relatively street level.

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#31668: Nov 2nd 2023 at 12:32:20 PM

The Bombshells were cool, and were some of the few characters to make the jump with Miles over to 616.

Which makes it weird that they haven't been used at all since Bendis left.

neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#31669: Nov 2nd 2023 at 12:38:31 PM

[up][up]I can understand them being a planet wide threat with alien technology since they are aliens but even then they would need an army.

Edited by neoamon on Nov 2nd 2023 at 7:41:49 PM

"May your heart be your guiding key"
raykoda16 Volunteer Vexilologist from Between here and there Since: Apr, 2019
Volunteer Vexilologist
#31670: Nov 2nd 2023 at 2:14:51 PM

I can't believe I'm reading some of this with regards to Venom. All of you love characters expanding and growing past their original concept, but not for him? The badass 90s street level villain/antihero was worn out. Cates recognized that, and was pushing the lore and concept of Venom to a more interesting place. I didn't even really like his run, but I appreciated him progressing Eddie and the symbiote as characters and concepts. And then Ewing pushed it even more. And do you want a street level Venom? You have Dylan right there. He's even got the original Venom himself. Just like that one issue of Moon Knight with him in it.

Asking for Venom to go back to the edgy 90s, or the mutants to go back to the mansion, or Beast back to a goody-toe shoes, or Peter back out of the marriage are all equally absurd. Or for Tony to get his secret identity back, or Sue to be a useless housewife, or only so many Green Lanterns (four, or three, or even just two or one).... All of you hate stagnation and character resets except for the characters you personally follow every issue of. C'mon.

U.S Army E-sports Discord Server Ban Speedrun Any%
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31671: Nov 2nd 2023 at 2:18:05 PM

Well that's a bit rude.

I was just talking a while ago about how much I was enjoying Donny Cates Venom and how Knull sounds like a cool villain for Venom so far.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31672: Nov 2nd 2023 at 2:26:04 PM

[up][up]You’re assuming A LOT about my feelings regarding Venom.

It’s not him changing and growing I dislike, and I sure as shit didn’t say I wanted him to go back to being a gritty 90s antihero. In fact I’ve said on here before that while I personally preferred Eddie as a villain, I don’t think he should be made evil again because it would demean and ruin all the character development and growth he’s gotten. If I had my way, Flash would still be in the suit and Eddie would be dead, probably. And Flash was FAR from a 90s antihero.

I was just criticizing the super-cosmic level Venom has jumped to under Cates, when I feel the character functions better at a lower level of conflict. That’s not saying we should reset back to square fucking one, that’d be stupid. I liked Cates run when it was a smaller, more personal scale of cosmic horror and while I personally detest time travel shit as said, I do like that Ewing’s kept the cosmic stuff but brought it down to less of a Crisis Crossover level.

And you’re assuming even more about my feelings of other characters. I don’t want ANY of the stuff you implied we want. And you’re also assuming that all change is inherently good, which is a fallacious thing to think. Chill the hell out and quit being rude.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#31673: Nov 2nd 2023 at 2:28:46 PM

For me, I'm fine with Venom. Knull was really not my thing, but I'm enjoying the Ewing run.

It's Carnage as a cosmic villain that falls flat. The Paknadel issues of the 2022 series, with Cletus terrifying normal people in New York, had more punch than the symbiote killing gods and demons. Yes, there's some rule of cool in Carnage trashing them, but it's harder to make readers care about them.

The fear and horror mostly comes from what may happen to mere mortals. And Carnage, imo, should bring the fear and horror.

Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#31674: Nov 2nd 2023 at 2:30:27 PM

I think my biggest gripe with the Venom/symbiote corner of Marvel right now is how disjointed it feels currently.

Like, this is a far cry of Cates' Venom where he went full bore into integrating various unrelated lore and mythos into Knull's introduction. All-Black being a symbiote, Knull being the black god from Gorr's backstory, Knowhere being Knull's doing, America's Weapon Plus program including their own symbiote team, etc. Shoot, even accidental stuff like how fire and sonic being psychological weaknesses rather than actual weakness also explains how the original Anti-Venom was immune to those things: it's a braindead symbiote, so of course it has no fears.

But the current run instead has instead been introducing and throwing away concepts and characters almost at random. I'm enjoying the story, fights and art and stuff, but it's hard to get attached to most things when they come and go so fast. Not helped when mini-series don't even keep track of the status of those characters, like the status of Toxin in the main series vs his containment in the Misery mini.

#IceBearForPresident
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#31675: Nov 2nd 2023 at 2:40:39 PM

I'm still confused why Black Widow is now co-lead in Venom.

Such a fucking random story choice.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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