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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31476: Oct 27th 2023 at 9:26:36 PM

Spider-Gwen is one of those characters who are both overexposed and underdeveloped, so it'll be great to see her mythos expanded.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31477: Oct 27th 2023 at 9:36:19 PM

Latour's run did develop Gwen and her world, the problem is that after he left Gwen was forced into the 616.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#31478: Oct 27th 2023 at 9:38:07 PM

Which was arguably an attempt at movie synergy with the first Spider-Verse film.

This comics concept amusingly could be inspired by Gwen being a drummer was a lot more emphasized in Across. Which would make it a good case of synergy for once.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31479: Oct 28th 2023 at 3:49:57 AM

An amusing thing about the whole “synergy” nonsense Marvel tends to be unhealthily obsessed with is that many times the comics change things to be more like the movies, the movies are instead making things like the comics, defeating the whole purpose.

Spider-Gwen/Ghost Spider’s portrayal in the Spider-Verse movies is heavily based on her comic, especially the original Latour run, with her traveling through the multiverse just being part of the larger plot involving lots of different takes on Spider-Man interacting rather than anything inherent to her as a character. Yet in their attempts at synergy, instead of actually portraying Gwen like she’s portrayed in the movies, they had her jumping universes and meeting variants and shit.

It’s definitely good they’re getting back to just letting Gwen stay in her own little corner and not jumping across the universes or fighting clones.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#31480: Oct 28th 2023 at 3:57:41 AM

On that note I'm expecting the next Spider-Verse or spider multiverse-related story to feature Miguel as the guy in charge of the Web Warriors/Spider-Society, whether as an antagonist or protagonist

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31481: Oct 28th 2023 at 4:03:00 AM

I wouldn’t be surprised. But also I really really really hope we’re finally done for good with “Spider-Verse” stuff in the comics beyond just the usual Elseworlds. I think it’s telling that by the most recent one, even Dan Slott himself was openly acknowledging how badly the concept has been handled in the comics and how overplayed it’s gotten, to the point that he spent the entirety of said most recent event all but erasing the Spider-Verse events from continuity — reviving everyone killed in all of them, wiping out the Inheritors, declaring everything is basically as it was before, etc. — and having Peter himself declare that he is never getting involved into this bullshit again.

At least we got a lot of cool AUs and the animated films out of it.

Edited by immortaleditor on Oct 28th 2023 at 4:03:57 AM

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#31482: Oct 28th 2023 at 5:14:08 AM

[up] And it turns out that Slott's recent story was a Series Fauxnale, as they are planning another big Spider-Verse event next year and new "Edge of the Spider-Verse" books are coming out soon to highlight new variants that'll presumably form part of the event.

I can see Slott potentially shifting gears to have Bailey and Superior involved in it and not Peter, if he is writing it at all (maybe it'll be Gage again)

Edited by Zarius on Oct 28th 2023 at 5:15:15 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#31483: Oct 28th 2023 at 4:45:22 PM

Finally started reading the current Miles comic, finished the Rabble arc.

I feel like Rabble works better as a Doctor Doom/Early Venom type antagonist where they are just a horribly petty psycho person regardless of their sad backstory.

Cause her vendetta is so fucking disproportionate that no amount of sad backstory or fractured mind from overusing her powers will ever make her sympathetic.

Its better to lean into her being a terrible person and Miles calls her out on it, instead of trying to talk her down in a sad voice and saying it doesn't have to be this way.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31484: Oct 28th 2023 at 4:53:17 PM

It probably should have been played up to make her a foil but not as her explicit motivation

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31485: Oct 28th 2023 at 5:19:44 PM

Yeah, I don’t like the attempts to portray Rabble as sympathetic when she’s yet to do anything even approaching sympathetic. Her motive is way too petty and borderline deranged, her hatred of Miles too severe, and her actions entirely too disproportionate to her actual problems. They should lean into her being a total scumbag. Not every villain needs a sad backstory.

I’m not terribly surprised that she ended up being Unintentionally Unsympathetic, since she’s clearly influenced by Phin from the Insomniac games, who was also really bad about this and just came off as a vindictive dumbass with no self control or moral code rather than the Tragic Villain she was meant as to a lot of people.

Edited by immortaleditor on Oct 28th 2023 at 5:20:06 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#31486: Oct 28th 2023 at 5:28:50 PM

Motivation, she's basically Eddie Brock blaming Miles for something he had no fault in.

Which I think at least Eddie wasn't intended to be sympathetic back then, he was just a jerk being manipulated by the symbiote but still overall a jerk.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#31487: Oct 28th 2023 at 5:50:41 PM

Her backstory would be sympathetic if it wasn't fodder for making her a villain for Miles.

Not exactly the same as Eddie's whose issues are mostly his fault, but it is very similar.

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31488: Oct 28th 2023 at 6:24:31 PM

Yeah, exactly. Eddie’s motivation is petty and vindictive but that’s because he’s (or rather was at the time) supposed to be unsympathetic. He blames Peter for something that’s his own fault and is so narcissistic and self-deluded — on top of being regularly manipulated by the symbiote in full “gaslighting partner” mode — that he legitimately sees everything he does as totally justified, no matter how bad. And his backstory reveals this to partially be because of his intensely fucked up childhood and relationship with his neglectful father leaving him with an intense desire to be loved and respected as well as reacting violently at anything he sees as jeopardizing that goal other than himself.

Rabble should be similar, but instead the story seems to treat her anger as a lot more justified than it actually is and apparently expects the reader to feel sorry for her to a greater extent then with Eddie.

At the same time, I admit I might be biased because I always preferred Eddie as a villain or very dark antihero and disliked the changes to make him more outright heroic, so Rabble’s portrayal may be scratching at an old annoyance for me.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31489: Oct 29th 2023 at 7:22:34 AM

So have we ever seen what Spider-Man going through Mysterio's hallucinations and illusions looks like from Mysterio's POV?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#31490: Oct 29th 2023 at 7:27:31 AM

At least in the Silver Age, Mysterio's illusions were particularly built around practical special effects, like robots and stuff, so there is usually a physical element to it that Spidey is interacting with. Though it's funny to imagine Spidey stumbling around tripping balls while Quentin points and laughs at him.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31491: Oct 29th 2023 at 7:29:01 AM

Yeah, I was just playing a round of Injustice 2 as Scarecrow with a friend and we joked that since Scarecrow in reality is just some guy in a burlap mask wearing a labcoat, Supergirl must be seriously tripping when she's getting hurt by him.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31492: Oct 29th 2023 at 9:54:26 AM

I feel like it depends on what kind of illusions Mysterio is using at the moment. Like Ibssb said, mostly Quentin seems to prefer practical effects in the comics, so what Spidey is seeing is technically real, just a robot or mask or whatever. He’s not above less tangible illusions like holograms, but that still leaves a visual element.

In general, Mysterio’s illusions involve actually physically constructing the things that he uses to trick people and he’s never often used stuff like hallucinogens to get things done like your example of Scarecrow. That modus operandi actually fits better with another Marvel villain, Mister Fear, who’s one of Daredevil’s big enemies.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#31493: Oct 29th 2023 at 9:56:59 AM

The Spider-Men illusions used on Peter, Miles and the Ultimates seemed to have little or no physical element, and were spur-of-the-moment stuff, as Mysterio had no time to prepare for some of them.

Much closer to the Scarecrow's style. Not sure we ever saw them from his perspective, though.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31494: Oct 29th 2023 at 10:00:04 AM

Yeah I was thinking about that.

And there's that one story where he tries to manipulate Spider-Man into thinking his life was all just a Hollywood production, and he's just an actor.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31495: Oct 29th 2023 at 10:15:14 AM

[up]Gaslighting people into thinking they’re insane and delusional is one of Quentin’s trademark schemes, one he’s recycled many times. “Guardian Devil” even had Daredevil mock him for it, pointing out how he’s repeated that trick how many times now and is prone to stealing ideas from other villains and from old movies on top of it.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#31496: Oct 29th 2023 at 10:18:17 AM

[up] Which beautifully set up the "here's one I stole from Kraven" line, iirc.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31497: Oct 29th 2023 at 10:21:56 AM

Then he came back.

I think we can thank Kindred for that one.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31498: Oct 29th 2023 at 10:22:03 AM

It did, lol. Guardian Devil is really great. Probably one of the best Daredevil arcs ever and definitely a standout story for Mysterio.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#31499: Oct 29th 2023 at 10:27:04 AM

I love how the first time he tried it it was Jameson and Flash Thompson that accidentally saved the day.

The Protomen enhanced my life.

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