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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

Antiyonder (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31401: Oct 26th 2023 at 6:25:58 PM

Adding in that continuity even lengthy doesn't have to be a problem. When I finally checked out a DC book that wasn't a tie in to a TV show or a crossover with Marvel, I tried The Return of Barry Allen (the one that doesn't really keep him back but reveals it to be a young Reverse Flash who had yet to meet Barry.) and even before I read more DC stuff (Mainly the Pre-2000s stuff.) I checked it out quite a bit until getting my own copy.

Part of the problem anyway is the poor retcons like depositing the Beyonder just cause someone wanted to spite Jim Shooter or rebooting some DC properties while others keep their continuity like: - This one is heavy. Silver Age Superboy being part of Legion of Super-Heroes history when Superman's new history has him donning the costume only as of adulthood. I do enjoy the story made, but yeah done cause DC didn't go through with a full reboot.

Adding to the mess is that before John Byrne came aboard the main title or even before his Man of Steel mini, his Superman first appeared in Booster Gold while the character's own book was still in Silver Age continuity (Demonstrated when Superman catches sight of Booster's Legion ring with no recognition of the object associated with who was originally.) boyhood friends of his.

But yeah, lead to a Pocket Universe where Teenage Supes existed. Then DC decided to finally reboot the Legion so that the Pocket Universe could be excised.

Except, Byrne had a major arc where Superman went back there. For better or worse he killed the Phantom Zone Kryptonians cause they were basically nigh invulnerable like Kryptonians Pre-Crisis and he imposed an exile onto himself where he met The Eradicator who saved him from his famous death. Plus Matrix Supergirl.

So what was made to keep some Pre-Crisis Legion history valid had to be kept cause of giving it importance to Superman history.😏

Going to double post cause of length.

Antiyonder (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31402: Oct 26th 2023 at 6:26:04 PM

- Restarting Wonder Woman but keeping Teen Titan continuity which meant making her sidekick the veteran hero who is barely younger than her. Besides that, Legends the first Post-Crisis story which goes with the new history had a tie in with Justice League of America's last four issue (#258-261).

Said issues flashbacked to the League's early battle with Amazo which among them had Wonder Woman, who as of Legends is a newbie. Oops.

Speaking of yeah Superman was reconned out of being a longtime League member cause they wanted to rely less on the most iconic ones. Fair enough, but they decide to keep everything else and it means making Supes a League ally to explain victories originally owed to his presence.

Not complicating, but kind of pointless to remove him from history if he needs to be reinserted in to plug some holes.

- Plus eventually restarting Doom Patrol before Infinite Crisis as if they didn't exist at all. Except Beast Boy's history and DM stuff in Teen Titans. Whoops.

Heck, some other Marvel examples of varying cases: - Silver Surfer during the near end of the 90s revealing that Zenn-La was destroyed not too long after Norrin Radd became the Surfer and Galactus crafted what was called an illusion albeit a sophisticated one.

Maybe not that odd, but Silver Surfer Volume 2 #1 (A one shot before the 1987 series) has been acknowledged at involves Galactus feeding on the planet.

- Heck, One Moment in Time and by extension OMD. Has Peter and MJ deciding against having kids, which is yeah makes it iffy when addressing Baby May and any moments tied to her. Like the couple leaving New York mainly to raise her or the Package subplot which Robbie was investigating, as well as Peter finding Aunt May only cause he followed a lead on his missing kid. Said baby acknowledged in the first Gold Goblin issue.

So yeah the problems really stem from say a wide relaunch that is withheld for some titles. Or retcons which don't have to be complicating, but should be given more thought before doing so.

Plus to a degree, a sliding timescale which do mean events either no longer happening or happening different.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31403: Oct 26th 2023 at 6:27:49 PM

Oh well, I'll try and give it a chance but I really dislike how so many people seem to have nothing but insults for the Ultimate universe these days.

That's nothing new, people have always disliked they they portrayed certain marvel characters.

And it's not false advertisement, they were clear about it being a new start.

Edited by Cortez on Oct 26th 2023 at 9:41:06 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#31404: Oct 26th 2023 at 6:30:02 PM

Part of this is also the writers often aren't imaginative enough to do something that would satisfy the whole ordeal. The zanier the better.

For example:

Legion Superboy actually ended up being from an alternate dimension created by the Time Trapper to manipulate the Legion and the "real" Superman never met him!

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31405: Oct 26th 2023 at 6:47:17 PM

That all does sum up the reason a lot of continuity problems and shitty retcons and such in superhero comics happen.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#31406: Oct 26th 2023 at 6:59:32 PM

Something to be excited for is that if Hickman is writing a villain like Doc Ock or Goblin, chances are we are going to be in for a Hell of a ride.

Dude does Uber villains, especially science villains really well.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Antiyonder (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31407: Oct 26th 2023 at 7:24:29 PM

And yeah the New 52 followed the same problem. Kept Green Lantern history and restarted Superman.

But among other things, Coast City's destruction and the whole Parallax event after was owed in part to Cyborg Superman. Plus any GL/Flash stories either not happening or happening without any Flash.😋

Legion Superboy actually ended up being from an alternate dimension created by the Time Trapper to manipulate the Legion and the "real" Superman never met him!

I'll cave to some bias in this case. Concept was fun namely in sort of crossing over a Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis version of Supes. Especially Superman finding some charm in the over ideal nature of the Pocket Universe and even say having a super pet.

It's not perfect, and has holes to find, but the real complication is owed more to being indecisive. Established the Pocket Universe to keep some Legion history valid, only to reboot it anyway.

Alternatively maybe a mandate that the Pocket Universe isn't to be used outside of Lo SH or at all so that it could be easily ignored if they decided to go with a reboot.

Same with the Justice League. If you want the Trinity removed from their continuity, then have the League established for the first time. Thus not having to back pedal with Superally as a patch.

Incidentally Greg Weisman (The Spectacular Spider-Man, Gargoyles and Young Justice) said it best that one solution would be to start continuity in a new world without pre-established history.

So maybe just a new title for the Titans and Legion so that the writers could still tell stories that wouldn't work in the main books. Kind of their MC 2 and Spider-Girl equivalent.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#31408: Oct 26th 2023 at 7:28:54 PM

Part of the issue was the inherent concept of MAN OF STEEL to begin with, which was the idea that Superman being divorced of super-pets, Kandor, Phantom Zone criminals, and Supergirl made Superman more 'serious.'

When, in fact it ditched a pretty massive chunk of the character's mythology.

It reminded me of how they had Supergirl be Superman's "Secret Weapon" because they didn't want her showing up in their flagship series that already had radio and tv shows.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
raykoda16 Volunteer Vexilologist from Between here and there Since: Apr, 2019
Volunteer Vexilologist
#31409: Oct 26th 2023 at 7:39:02 PM

It's functionally impossible to ever do a reboot. Some writers will always want to use old stories, and so those will be canon. And then it'll become a totally clusterfuck as to what is canon and what is not.

I read an interview with Zdarsky about his Batman where he admitted that he *didn't actually know* if Morrison Batman and Zurrh en Arrh in particular were canon or not. Your own friggin writers don't know what they have! Same with the Emotional Spectrum for Green Lantern, etc. It's one of the reasons I can never get into DC.

As (supposedly) terrible mountains of continuity is, the alternative is worse. Just write well to give the audience the info they need. It's not hard.

U.S Army E-sports Discord Server Ban Speedrun Any%
Nofix from Over there Since: Jan, 2015
#31410: Oct 26th 2023 at 7:40:28 PM

It would be possible if editors actually edited books, but that hasn't been a thing for the big two in decades.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31411: Oct 26th 2023 at 7:41:58 PM

Incidentally Greg Weisman (The Spectacular Spider-Man, Gargoyles and Young Justice) said it best that one solution would be to start continuity in a new world without pre-established history.

So just like the new and old Ultimate universe.

Though it feels like we've gone off topic, since this is a Spider-Man thread.

Edited by Cortez on Oct 26th 2023 at 10:44:14 AM

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#31412: Oct 26th 2023 at 7:51:10 PM

Honestly, when I was getting into comics (specifically Marvel through my enjoyment of The Super Hero Squad Show, I really got into DC a bit later on, though I always liked Batman and Superman through my dad, who was an especially big Superman fan) for the first time as a kid, I just read whatever books and characters I wanted to (mostly whatever my local library had, including plenty of collections of the classic Lee/Kirby/Ditko stuff) and any continuity questions I had I went to Wikipedia to solve. I also had a few DK visual dictionaries for Spider-Man and Iron Man that went over most of their respective histories up until the books were published (the Spidey one covered everything up to the beginning of Civil War, the Iron Man one everything up to about halfway through Dark Reign). It really isn't as daunting as it may appear to get into comics, and nobody expects you to have read absolutely everything.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#31413: Oct 26th 2023 at 8:03:45 PM

That's what I did.

Just read what interested me and maybe skim the wiki if any backstory interested me.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#31414: Oct 26th 2023 at 8:28:14 PM

RE: Hickman's Ultimate Spider-Man:

Pete's gonna have a daughter and a son?

Damn. surprised

Now I really wonder what'll happen if USM outsells ASM by a metric ton. evil grin

Antiyonder (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31415: Oct 26th 2023 at 8:50:15 PM

Yeah barring the stuff I mentioned regarding retcons and well reboots that are suppose to restart everything but then keep some history intact (Plus that mess where originally the New 52 floppies acknowledged previous Titans, but trade reprints alter some text to omit such ideas).

So just like the new and old Ultimate universe.

A way to look at it. It's pretty much how Earth-1 and Earth-2 worked. Heck like when Spider-Girl and later Renew Your Vows were current, you had the one world where writers would play safe with the icons while you had a means to also giving people wanting more flexible stories books meeting their taste.

It really isn't as daunting as it may appear to get into comics, and nobody expects you to have read absolutely everything.

Really more a matter of execution I think makes a different.

It can be argued that the modern approach to event comics do pressure readers to get titles or such as a desperate cash grab while the other kind make the researching (back issues and guides) fun rather than well homework.

Now I really wonder what'll happen if USM outsells ASM by a metric ton. evil grin

Yeah best we can hope for is consistently well, but Spider-Girl and even Renew Your Vows which had The Amazing Spider-Man as part of the title either weren't known as well and not flagship.

Plus I think like with any hidden gem it's no just purchasing it, but taking advantage of well online places you go to as a means of making others aware of such.

Heck with Gargoyles in particular I'm getting it in floppies and trade. Once the trades come, then I will donate the issues to the library. Supporting my local library in the process.😁

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31416: Oct 26th 2023 at 9:01:18 PM

So this new Ultimate Spider-Man is not the same as the old one created by Bendis?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31417: Oct 26th 2023 at 9:03:47 PM

No, it's a different Peter Parker.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31418: Oct 26th 2023 at 9:08:45 PM

I'll give this one a shot.

Seems like an antidote to the Wells run and Paul.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#31419: Oct 26th 2023 at 9:13:09 PM

It's a new Ultimate Universe specifically changed by thr Maker.

For one thing there are various geopolitical factions under in deference.

Like how the Rasputin family (Magik and Colussus) run the Eastern-Europe section of the world.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31420: Oct 26th 2023 at 9:29:03 PM

So this Spider-Man was bitten when he was older.

It's an interesting take, and considering the Maker prevented him from being bitten initially, an amusing In Spite of a Nail.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Nofix from Over there Since: Jan, 2015
#31421: Oct 26th 2023 at 9:36:55 PM

The son is probably going to be named Ben, natch, but I wonder if the daughter will be May, like most timelines, or Claire like in Life Story?

Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor Since: Aug, 2014
The Mad Doctor
#31422: Oct 26th 2023 at 9:50:44 PM

I'm hoping for a story arc called Spider-Man and the Mid-Life Crisis

Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#31423: Oct 26th 2023 at 10:08:20 PM

"Just read what interested me and maybe skim the wiki if any backstory interested me." You kids with your Wikipedias. Get off my lawn!

But yeah, I started reading comics before we even had the Internet in our home. It was probably, like, '89 or '90 when I started reading comics, when I was 4 or 5 years old. I just read the stuff my brother bought, and then later, started picking up stuff myself. I'd get a random issue of a comic, and just, you know, roll with it. I think that's maybe a big thing that gets lost as we get older. At a certain age, we want to know the details. We want to know all the back story. As kids, we just accept what's on the page, and don't sweat the rest.

It makes me think of the Death of Superman, which I think might have been the first Superman story I read. The TPB started with Superman rescuing some cop from a bunch of mutant dudes. Who's the cop? Doesn't matter, he's grumpy and that's amusing. Who are the weird-looking criminals? Doesn't matter, they look cool.

The Justice League shows up as part of it. Did I know who a single one of those characters was? Nope. Did the bother me? Nope. This Ice girl seems cute and sweet, I like her. This Guy Garnder dude seems like a bit of a prick. Maxima shows up, who the hell is Maxima? Doesn't matter, she seems neat.

I'd read a few early '90s issues of Spider-Man, but not many, and by the time I started reading it semi-regularly, Ben Reilly was in the role. I had absolutely no knowledge of any of the close shit. And that didn't matter, because I was enjoying the stories. Though I don't think I actually collected it for very long, come to think of it. But whatever, I didn't mind not having that backstory on why some blond guy was Spider-Man, it just was what it was.

I very much take the attitude that all you need to know is what the comic tells you to know. Anything beyond that is a bonus, but it shouldn't really be required. If a comic is leaving out context that is genuinely important to understanding the story, then the writer fucked up. But for the most part, read the recap page and jump in.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#31424: Oct 26th 2023 at 10:49:30 PM

Us marriage fans are eating good again, for now, though I think this puts to bed all those rumours that 616 will try to reunite Peter and MJ in the near future when Wells wraps the run up. I think they're invested in building MJ as Jackpot, and from the letters Lowe has been responding to, Marvel aren't interested in making her a Plus 1 to Peter (Lowe's words)

Too bad the newspaper strip got pulled from circulation, as that too provided solid Spider-Marriage representation, but this'll do.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31425: Oct 26th 2023 at 10:52:47 PM

Paul is def going to be her guy in the chair.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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