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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31326: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:05:16 PM

[up]Nah, I really like Kraven and his family too. Kraven’s one of my favorite Spidey villains and I mentioned way earlier in this thread that I really liked the idea of framing the Parkers/Spiders and Kravinoffs/Hunters as Feuding Families and am disappointed they never really went with and developed that idea. The Spiderfamily as a healthy family of heroes, the Hunters as a toxic family of villains, and them being caught in a Hatfields and McCoys style Cycle of Revenge begun by Peter and Kraven’s beef.

[up][up]Yeah, Vermin and Sandman both are the exact villains who should’ve had their redemption arcs and had them stick. I’ll forever curse John Byrne for stealing Flint’s redemption.

Edited by immortaleditor on Oct 24th 2023 at 7:07:56 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31327: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:13:40 PM

Why are there so many Vermins anyway?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31328: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:14:16 PM

He gained the power to replicate Multiple Man style at some point, don’t remember precisely when.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#31329: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:16:27 PM

Yes, you don't need Sandman when you have his superior replacement anyway.

HYDROMAN!

Does he even have a backstory?

Maybe!

But he's really just a goon!

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#31330: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:20:32 PM

Hydro Man was also the guy responsible for kickstarting Flint's redemption, because that time they were fused into a horrific monstrosity scared him that badly.

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31331: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:22:56 PM

Precisely! Flint’s always worked better as a well-meaning guy who just made some bad choices in his youth and ultimately managed to clean up. Hell, even after he was forced into being bad again, he’s still barely a villain; he never really does anything evil and he and Spidey are still Friendly Enemies despite it all. And Hydro Man had the “thug with elemental powers” gimmick down way better because his personality actually suited being a villain, so Sandman being bad is just superfluous.

Edited by immortaleditor on Oct 24th 2023 at 7:23:08 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#31332: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:27:01 PM

Wasn't there something about a new backstory for Kraven? His origin ties him to the Russian Revolution, which would've made him at least late middle aged even in the '60s and is downright absurd now without mystical mumbo-jumbo - which, to be fair, Kraven has access to.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31333: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:35:01 PM

The recent marvel unlimited Cloneven the Hunter comic did have Kraven's family flee Russia during the Russian Revolution.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#31334: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:36:29 PM

Oh so he's just a descendant of Russian ex-pats now rather than one himself?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#31335: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:42:20 PM

I mean, the Chameleon is his half-brother so there has to be a Soviet connection there somewhere.

If I were hired to write Kraven, I'd make some absolutely batshit World Newhon story for the Kravinovs with them fleeing to England and becoming intermarried with the Plunder family of Ka-Zar and becoming the embodiment of imperialism and colonialism. Do lots of flashbacks to his father teaming up with Ulysses Klaw and being evil in Wakanda. Kraven, however, would be against most of his family and a Noble Demon.

Which ironically seems to be something of the plot of the Sony movie so it may not be totally awful.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 24th 2023 at 7:44:13 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31336: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:48:10 PM

Kraven was a kid when his family fled Russia to the US

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#31337: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:53:35 PM

That'd still make him over a hundred now then. So I assume he's extending his longevity somehow.

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31338: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:57:05 PM

It would make sense for him to have extended life. Him juicing up on magic potions of various sorts to improve his already formidable power is a long established aspect. It’d be easy to hand wave that he had a slowed lifespan from one of them, similar to the rejuvenation treatments Black Widow and Nick Fury got.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31339: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:57:56 PM

Random Wakanda Woman gave him so many herbs

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31340: Oct 24th 2023 at 8:04:18 PM

[up]AU where Kraven is just some guy who’s REALLY high on herbs and mushrooms he bought from Calypso when?

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#31341: Oct 24th 2023 at 9:44:16 PM

The DeMatteis Infinity Comic retelling of his origin, published last week, still shows Kraven growing up before the Russian revolution and civil war.

He's described as a child and drawn as a young teen, or thereabouts - old enough to assault his supposed half-brother with a whip.

That must be pre-1923, at the very latest, so as noted above he's about a century old when Peter's bitten by the spider.

The story mentions how he learns from the power and wisdom of the mystic Aja Orisha, but never directly mentions that he's Long-Lived.

Edited by Mrph1 on Oct 24th 2023 at 5:45:18 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31342: Oct 24th 2023 at 9:46:22 PM

Maybe the reason I've never liked Kraven, especially the game version, is because the magical bullshit that comes packaged with his character.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#31343: Oct 25th 2023 at 6:13:54 AM

Maybe the reason I've never liked Kraven, especially the game version, is because the magical bullshit that comes packaged with his character.

Interesting.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31344: Oct 25th 2023 at 6:22:08 AM

Hear me out, Spider-Man the various Goblins, and quite a lot of his rogues have gotten their powers from science fiction sources, EX: Norman and Roderick got their powers from a formula that enhances the human body and are thematically appropriate as villains to Spider-Man who got his powers from a radioactive spider.

Of course, science marches on and all that but I can buy within the setting of Spider-Man, the radiation can empower Peter Parker.

But when you add mystical mumbo jumbo like potions that give Kraven super strength and animal spirits, it just makes him off to me. I find him a boring villain, and not even the new game made me like him. He's just an OP asshole there IMO and is thankfully overshadowed by Venom.

But I will say there are TWO versions of Kraven I actually like. There's Ultimate Kraven and Spectacular Kraven.

I like the former for being a joke even when he enhances himself to get powers. And Spectacular Kraven works unironically for me because the story acknowledges a guy like him wouldn't be a match for Spider-Man physically so he goes out to seek more power from Warren to match Spider-Man at his own game through genetic experiments.

I think that works wonders for his character.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 25th 2023 at 9:23:21 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#31345: Oct 25th 2023 at 6:30:00 AM

I feel like Kraven is a guy they keep doubling down on the history of when he's a character who'd work much better as an updated one.

Mind you, I don't think he's any more silly a character than any other Spidey Rogue.

And I may like him because of both Squirrel Girl and the fact that with better writing, he'd just be the Gail Simone Catman.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31346: Oct 25th 2023 at 6:31:03 AM

No offense, but the fact that you are fine with all the bullshit science fiction mumbo jumbo but not the magic fantasy mumbo jumbo seems rather strange.

Me I like Kraven and I’m totally fine with magic, mysticism, and spiritual stuff in Spider-Man like the Spider-Totem elements added in JMS’ run (Pre-Slott ruining it with Spider-Verse).

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31347: Oct 25th 2023 at 6:32:38 AM

It's just my taste because I really dislike it when Spider-Man gets all mystical. I hate all that stuff with the Spider-Totem. Particularly making Spider-Man the Chosen One which is just such an asinine concept.

I'm fine with him interacting with magic but when they make it an integral part of his mythos then it just sours me.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#31348: Oct 25th 2023 at 6:42:12 AM

One of the things I liked about the original JMS Ezekiel/Shathra/Morlun stuff was the ambiguity.

Is he the mystic spider totem? Or is he just a guy with spider powers who attracts mystical attention because people wrongly assume he's some sort of totem.

Once that dropped away it was less interesting.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#31349: Oct 25th 2023 at 6:42:32 AM

Eh, there's a if and or but there.

Spider-Man being mystical is a terrible idea.

Fighting mystical people? Not so much.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#31350: Oct 25th 2023 at 6:57:25 AM

Maybe when Editorial stops protecting Mephisto, Spider-Man can finally punch him out.

As it stands, Mephisto is the Big Bad of Spider-Man's mythos now.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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