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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31226: Oct 23rd 2023 at 11:41:59 AM

I mean that’s fine

But the speculation existed because it was played as a mystery in the first place

[up][up] Riri hasn’t had a lot lately.

Edited by Bocaj on Oct 23rd 2023 at 2:42:36 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31227: Oct 23rd 2023 at 11:44:45 AM

[up][up][up]Riri’s still around but just kinda there and has nothing in particular going for her. I haven’t seen a single person who is seriously a big fan of her. Ironically, Gerry Duggan’s run seemed to be trying to build up a subplot about her using the Mandarin’s rings for good that was interesting and could’ve given her a ton more depth, but it’s largely been forgotten about in favor of Iron Man helping the X-Men against Orchis.

She’s like Jessica Jones in that she is very tied to Bendis, as she was largely his latest pet character. Unlike all of Bendis’ other pet characters, she doesn’t have a prebuilt fanbase AND Bendis wasn’t especially good at writing her. She was an embodiment of all of Bendis’ flaws as a writer and of the general very bad era of Marvel she debuted in, being a generic and shallow replacement for Tony that coasted off identity politics and borderline exploitative forms of representation.

Edited by immortaleditor on Oct 23rd 2023 at 11:48:08 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#31228: Oct 23rd 2023 at 11:48:51 AM

[up][up] He wanted it to be the big reveal.

Its just ya know the reveal doesn't work when its literally nothing.

Should have just stated it from the get go instead of making a big deal about it.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
raykoda16 Volunteer Vexilologist from Between here and there Since: Apr, 2019
Volunteer Vexilologist
#31229: Oct 23rd 2023 at 11:53:05 AM

Riri's showing up in the right next issue. I imagine Duggan's gotta have plans for Iron Man after X-Men wraps up.

Even the Simone JJ run was a dud. Writers have got to get pass Kilgrave as a villain. Everything people say about Batman killing the Joker is totally true when it comes to those two. Throw him into the sun and move the fuck on. Thompson's run on her was great because 1) she moved the fuck on from Kilgrave (mostly) and 2) the darkness in the character curbed some of Thompsons worst instincts as a writer.

And Luke too got dropped into the ether as soon he became mayor. Only to show up in..... ASM's Gang War. So we are on topic after all.

U.S Army E-sports Discord Server Ban Speedrun Any%
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31230: Oct 23rd 2023 at 11:58:33 AM

If there was a thunderbolts book, Luke would be their grumpy boss. But the Thunderbolts book was a dry fart of a miniseries that accomplished nothing with the premise and nobody actually gives a shit about the status quo that superheroes aren’t allowed in New York

Edited by Bocaj on Oct 23rd 2023 at 2:58:43 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31231: Oct 23rd 2023 at 12:03:25 PM

[up][up]Yeah, Purple Man is one of those villains like Joker or (funnily enough given who were just talking about) Green Goblin who’s just gotta get retired at this point. He’s become over-defined by this ONE evil thing he did once and the only logical end for his character is dying so him continuing to show up and get away in the end is just tiring at this point.

[up]Agreed. Which is insane because the LAST time Luke was the boss of the Thunderbolts — the Jeff Parker run — is one of their best runs ever and a big favorite of mine.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31232: Oct 23rd 2023 at 12:50:11 PM

The last I remember of anyone doing anything notable with her was that dumb Dennis Hallum run where he had her get pregnant for some reason.

That was only for one arc. It wasn't even that bad.

People always exaggerate what actually happened during that arc.

Jess D’s pregnancy was played up as a mystery box, I think?

It wasn't, they were quick to say she used a donor.

just dislike how Hallum did it, because his writing left a lot to be desired and he clearly didn’t care to actually explore the character development that would be required for Jess being willing to even have a kid

Except that did happen in the arcs prior.

Edited by Cortez on Oct 23rd 2023 at 4:23:01 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31233: Oct 23rd 2023 at 1:16:13 PM

Issue 5 of that run. Which isn’t as bad as it could have been but it was played as mystery unnecessarily up until that point plus however long the marketing was

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31234: Oct 23rd 2023 at 1:25:22 PM

Except it wasn't, who the "father" was, was not something the story dwelled on or treated as important.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#31235: Oct 23rd 2023 at 1:28:41 PM

So curious.

For ease of travel. Wikipedia at the top lists Spiderman central rogues gallery. As in the bad Guys most likely to see in media and his most iconic. After Spiderman ps4. Mr negative was the latest added.

The current is 26 (chameleon, vulture, dock ock, sandman, lizard, electro, mysterio, green goblin, Kraven, beetle, scorpion, the spider slayers / Alastair Smythe, rhino, shocker , kingpin, prowler, morbius, hammerhead, jackal, black cat, hydro man , hobgoblin, tombstone, venom, carnage, and Mr negative). Also funningly enough it's kinda funny but I'm pretty sure most of these even know come from ditko /lee and Conway's runs.

Will spot after Spiderverse finishes become no. 27.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31236: Oct 23rd 2023 at 1:41:50 PM

[up]That’s a pretty good rundown of Spidey’s centermost Rogues Gallery. Those are the most popular and most likely to appear in adaptations, plus the one’s with the biggest importance to the plot.

I really hope Spot does get added to it. He’s one of my favorite underrated Spidey villains and Spider-Verse shows exactly how best to write him. I wouldn’t even object if they made him Spidey’s newest archenemy. Norman, Otto, and Venom are all redeemed and Norman and Otto especially are in need of retirement because they’re both way past their expiration. Those three are Peter’s main archenemies and with them out of action or off in spin-offs, he use a new one along with the wider face lift the series needs.

I think Spot could really be that if they commit to giving him development into his scary badass black hole form from Spider-Verse. I’d love it actually. It’d give Spidey a very unique and different kind of enemy to fight and an appropriate step up in challenge level for him.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31237: Oct 23rd 2023 at 1:43:41 PM

The Spider-Man Unlimited comic is pushing Spot lately

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#31238: Oct 23rd 2023 at 1:50:47 PM

I dunno, Spot was on a legion of losers with Gibbon and Grizzly, it's hard to come back from that.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31239: Oct 23rd 2023 at 1:52:18 PM

I don't see them retiring Norman or Otto and it seems Norman is on his way back to being a Goblin.

I can see Spot being pushed as an enemy for Miles, like the movie.

Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#31240: Oct 23rd 2023 at 1:52:39 PM

I'd like an occasional popup from Spot too, but as for pushing him to be a mainline villain? Eh, he kinda works best as a (practically self-admitted) part-time villain. He's not in it for any big haul or grandiose display, any petty revenge or anything. If he just like, wants a new tv or something he'll pop into an electronics store and snatch one, end of heist.

Shoot one of the more interesting things about his early days was when he realized Spiderman was beginning to catch on to his tricks in their rematch, he declared "GG" and semi-retired. Purse snatching ain't worth getting punched in the face after all.

#IceBearForPresident
neoamon Mr from Planet Mobius S.T.C. (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Mr
#31241: Oct 23rd 2023 at 2:27:04 PM

The original Hobgoblin was meant to serve as Spiderman's arch-enemy. He was designed as a successor for Norman Osborn/Green Goblin role as Spiderman's arch-enemy since they decided they couldn't bring Norman back from the dead. However Venom was introduced a few years later who took the role of arch-enemy instead.

Edited by neoamon on Oct 23rd 2023 at 12:31:15 PM

"May your heart be your guiding key"
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31242: Oct 23rd 2023 at 2:29:59 PM

Different strokes. Plus, as I said, if they did push him as a mainliner, they’d have to commit to giving him character development into one, and I mean REALLY commit.

Regardless, I stand firm by my secondary point that Spidey really needs a new and proper archenemy. I’ve made my issues with Norman abundantly clear, Otto suffers from a lot of the same problems, and while I prefer Venom as a villain, he’s spent so long being so thoroughly developed into a good guy since the Cates run that making him evil again would be a travesty. As part of the general desperate need for new blood in the Spider-Office, we need to have Spidey fight somebody who’s a big deal that isn’t Green Goblin or Goblin adjacent.

[up]Yeah and it worked out for the best. Hobgoblin’s a great baddie but he just wasn’t archenemy material — too derivative of Norman’s gimmick (before being developed in a different direction) and lacked the really personal connection to Peter that the other arches had. Venom was much better for the role of Spidey’s third Big Bad.

Edited by immortaleditor on Oct 23rd 2023 at 2:33:19 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#31243: Oct 23rd 2023 at 2:50:57 PM

Hobgoblin is funny because he tripped backwards into archenemy status when he really didn't want to.

He had no idea that Green Goblin was such a personal enemy to Spider-Man that Spider-Man would see a dude in a goblin outfit and furiously try to beat his ass.

Kingsley just wanted to do some crime for fun and blackmail his social circle but he chose the wrong mask to do casual crime in.

And the muddling his arc got from the changes in writer sorta worked for his arc overall. Because Kingsley got drawn into more and more nonsense like gang wars and pissing off Fisk and Spider-Man still wanted his ass and it just wasn't fun anymore and nowhere near profitable enough to be worth it. So he just quit. Shoved Leeds into the costume, shoved him towards the gang war, and went to go sip drinks on a beach.

I love Hobgoblin for being the know when to fold them supervillain.

And that may disqualify him from being a good archnemesis to Spidey but only nuts actually want to be one.

On the other hand, I don't know if Venom himself is a great candidate for Spidey's archnemesis. He's a great dark reflection but he was usually too narrowly focused. He'll ruin Peter's life but he's not going to pull the big schemes that Ock or Goblin would.

Edited by Bocaj on Oct 23rd 2023 at 5:52:38 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#31244: Oct 23rd 2023 at 2:52:36 PM

Somewhat curious. Is their any reason why it's been rare that new villains outside of Conway , Romita and Ditko/Lee's runs have caught on.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31245: Oct 23rd 2023 at 2:58:19 PM

I love Hobgoblin for being the know when to fold them supervillain.

Or at least that was the case until the decided to bring him back. Which is a shame, i always thought him retiring to some tropical island was great ending for him.

On the other hand, I don't know if Venom himself is a great candidate for Spidey's archnemesis. He's a great dark reflection but he was usually too narrowly focused. He'll ruin Peter's life but he's not going to pull the big schemes that Ock or Goblin would.

Yeah, Eddie never had any big plans as a villain. Just kill Spider-Man or mess with him.

Edited by Cortez on Oct 23rd 2023 at 6:02:16 AM

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31246: Oct 23rd 2023 at 3:03:51 PM

[up][up]I think people just got settled into the Lee-Ditko and Romita villains as THE main rogues because they came first (and that era was such a long and influential part of Spidey’s history) and it now takes a lot to impress people enough to be let into that big boys club, especially nowadays when Spider-Editorial only really cares about Goblin and Ock. So the Lee-Ditko-Romita classic baddies have kinda become a “top tier” that you have to compete to get into.

There’s sometimes be periods where they make an attempt to introduce an array of new baddies, only a few of whom will become a permanent fixture of the gallery. And only a lucky few of those will get welcomed into said top tier. Venom was among one such spattering of new villains, if I recall. Brand New Day was the most recent attempt at this practice, with Mr. Negative and Overdrive being the lucky winners because they majorly botched the other newbie villains.

Edited by immortaleditor on Oct 23rd 2023 at 3:04:47 AM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#31247: Oct 23rd 2023 at 3:19:36 PM

Mr.Negative had an interesting hook that the other BND villains didn't have.

And Overdrive being a villain that was also a Spider-Man fanboy made him endearing.

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#31248: Oct 23rd 2023 at 3:24:05 PM

I'm actually kinda surprised Morbius isn't on there. No, really, we joke on him because of the shitty movie, but he's a fairly prominent Spidey rogue that's shown up in adaptations like the 90s cartoon and quite a few of the games. I'd say he's on Mr. Negative's level of "not a classic Lee/Ditko/Romita omnipresent character, but still has a healthy presence".

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31249: Oct 23rd 2023 at 3:26:43 PM

[up][up]I think Paper Doll could’ve worked like Negative and Overdrive did if they were willing to do more with her, but they didn’t. All the other BND newbies were trash with nothing in the way of real hooks.

[up]Morbius is on there I think. Though he also wasn’t a villain for especially long time before becoming more of a good guy, so maybe that’s why people often don’t consider him a rogue.

Edited by immortaleditor on Oct 23rd 2023 at 3:28:31 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#31250: Oct 23rd 2023 at 3:27:31 PM

Umh He is among the 26.

Like memes aside. No one can Deny he's easily one of the most recurring spiderman villains in media.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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