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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#30976: Oct 13th 2023 at 6:25:25 PM

You know, I used to be frustrated at Sony's death grip on the Spider-Man Franchise, but I'm starting to wonder if they have a better understanding of the character than Marvel does.

One Strip! One Strip!
knightstorm Since: Feb, 2022
#30977: Oct 13th 2023 at 7:03:49 PM

[up]I think they do. Marvel lost all credibility with Spider-Man after OMD.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#30978: Oct 13th 2023 at 7:24:34 PM

What's kind of interesting is that OMD wasn't an isolated incident - there seemed to be whole active movement to darken superhero stories in the mid-late aughts, often by seriously screwing up the main characters' personal lives, having them experience betrayal, or giving them significant character flaws they'd never displayed before.

Remember, this was around the same time mutants were decimated, Wanda went insane, and we got Civil War and other arcs where people who are usually friends suddenly decide to settle disagreements by beating the tar out of each other (and sometimes leveling New York in the process). DC did the infamous Identity Crisis a couple years prior too.

I'm not certain why this movement came to be, but I'd imagine post-9/11 cultural malaise played a part; that would certainly explain things like how at the end of CW, Steve is defeated not by Tony, but by a group of anonymous first responders, ie. "real-life heroes."

Edited by HamburgerTime on Oct 13th 2023 at 9:25:00 AM

Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#30979: Oct 13th 2023 at 7:34:18 PM

Spoilers from the last page.

Also Harry starts out as AGENT Venom before becoming Venom proper as he goes off the deep end.

Cletus Kasady is introduced as a leader of a cult of arsonists, which is a new take. The ending sets him up to become Carnage in the next game. Cletus is played by Cameron Monaghan.

Flash is not Anti-Venom in this continuity because Peter gets the Anti-Venom suit to fight Venom.

MJ gets possessed by a symbiote for a boss fight, in what feels to me like a twisted reference to her whole Trauma Button about Venom in the comics. In fact, she’s this continuity’s Scream.

Damn, it's like almost everything I wanted. I thought they were just using Venom for his name recognition and would go through the motions with him, but nah they are fully committed to the symbiote corner of the mythos while keeping things fresh.

Edited by Spirit on Oct 13th 2023 at 10:35:15 AM

#IceBearForPresident
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#30980: Oct 13th 2023 at 7:38:26 PM

[up][up]I think that was part of it, but a bigger part was just the people in charge at the time. Marvel had Joe Quesada as head editor, DC had the infamous Dan DiDio, and both of those individuals had a tendency to push Darker and Edgier takes on comics… or, more accurately, to try and force their personal favorite characters and status quos and incredibly shitty fringe opinions as the “definitive” take. Couple that with the 2000s seeing comics discover their greatest level of freedom in content ever and the aforementioned editorials pushing “rising stars” known for incredibly dark and fucked up edgelord comics like Mark Millar, Garth Ennis, Warren Ellis, and so on, as well as to push and shield from firing writers based on who sucked up to them the best rather then who did their jobs. Then on top of that you had that one bigoted asshole fucking things up over movie rights whose name I forget.

It’s no accident that DC has gone very Lighter and Softer and been improved for it once DiDio was forced out alongside all his cronies, nor that things got better for most of Marvel as Quesada and the other guy both got Kicked Upstairs and away from the comics, nor again that a lot of the edgelords have largely either left for indie comics, toned it back massively, fallen out of popularity, or been exposed as creeps.

[up]Yeah, from what I’ve seen of the leaks, its probably one of the best takes on Venom ever. While I’d have preferred it to be Eddie, the story they tell is absolutely fantastic and the writing for Venom is perfect. The massive ego, the creepy possessiveness towards Peter, the violence and savagery, the misguided desire to help others in ways that just hurt them, the power… it all really reminds you of WHY Venom is one of Spidey’s archenemies and how good he is in that role.

Edited by immortaleditor on Oct 13th 2023 at 7:45:27 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#30981: Oct 13th 2023 at 8:33:59 PM

DC did the infamous Identity Crisis a couple years prior too.

Didn't Identity Crisis making rape a hot topic in the comics world also influence Felicia being retconned into a rape survivor?

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#30982: Oct 13th 2023 at 9:13:37 PM

[up] I'm not certain if Identity Crisis "caused" that or any other specific retcon, but I know some people who worked with Didio felt he had a singular obsession with "proving" that superhero comics could tackle serious, sensitive real world issues, and that was one of the stories that came out of it.

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#30983: Oct 13th 2023 at 9:31:01 PM

Yes. DiDio was really about trying to “prove” to nobody in particular who mattered that superheroes could be serious and mature and tackle hard issues, as if countless better people before him didn’t already prove that. The dude may have been majorly and childishly insecure about being in the comics business, looking back.

The irony, of course, being that DiDio was so incompetent that his attempts to prove he superhero medium’s ability to tackle such topics usually ended up failing badly and not doing sensitive subjects justice. As the Identity Crisis thing shows, making it look like he was wrong even though he was correct that the genre could handle heady material.

Edited by immortaleditor on Oct 13th 2023 at 9:32:03 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#30984: Oct 13th 2023 at 9:31:54 PM

There are multiple characters narrating.

And none of them are women.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#30985: Oct 13th 2023 at 10:49:52 PM

Superior Spider-Man#1 preview with a major spoiler at the end

Otto finally remembers Peter is Spider-Man

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#30986: Oct 13th 2023 at 11:11:17 PM

The more superhero comics try to tackle "serious" issues like rape, global/domestic politics and other crimes you'd see on cop dramas the more childish they seem. Especially when you are using established heroes that were never meant for that.

As much as Garth Ennis is ragged on at least he has the decency to make up his own parody characters for the bulk of his hit pieces or just use the Punisher for when he wants to write something gory or gritty.

I shouldn't see Spider-Man and Black Cat having a miniseries dedicated to the latter suddenly being revealed to be a college date rape survivor.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#30987: Oct 13th 2023 at 11:14:52 PM

I think comic books are just a medium.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#30988: Oct 13th 2023 at 11:20:40 PM

I just saw some the leaks for Insomniac Spider-Man 2, including the MJ boss fight, funny how for Wells He writes Peter as the possessed aggressor venting to MJ and here in the game it's the opposite.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#30989: Oct 14th 2023 at 2:51:21 AM

Also cool fact I learned about the game.

Cameron Monaghan is the voice of cletus Cassidy. Man really is becoming our Mark generations Mark hamill. Also Godamn what an amazing casting.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 14th 2023 at 2:52:04 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#30990: Oct 14th 2023 at 2:55:00 AM

@Handsome Rob Sony clearly respects the character more than to perpetually make him look like a chump like Marvel is seemingly compelled to so.

Heck they gave us the best written versions of both 616!Gwen and 65!Gwen making a compelling romance arc for both of them.

Shame the former ended in tragedy but Gwen isn't allowed to live long without superpowers.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#30991: Oct 14th 2023 at 4:34:11 AM

I shouldn't see Spider-Man and Black Cat having a miniseries dedicated to the latter suddenly being revealed to be a college date rape survivor.

The sad part is that Evil That Men Do is one of the few works — especially from the 2000s — that does a somewhat good job with showing a male rape survivor and doesn't treat his victimhood as a punchline or something that he deserves.

This is especially notable when you compare it to DC's Dick Grayson who has been raped three times by women and all three instances were badly handled when it came to the fallout.

Edited by windleopard on Oct 14th 2023 at 12:34:49 PM

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#30992: Oct 14th 2023 at 5:51:08 AM

[up]x6 Superhero comics absolutely can handle serious topics like that, but yeah, there’s a certain point where you’re taking the characters into waters they just aren’t built to handle. Of course, you can say the same for A LOT of fiction that handles extraordinarily sensitive, complex, and controversial topics like what you mention; rape and sexual assault, global/domestic politics, and so on. There are subjects you just shouldn’t touch on in entertainment fiction unless you’re absolutely certain you’ve got a very good handle on it and won’t do it in a way that swaths of people find offensive or out of touch. And even the good examples of actually successfully doing it (e.g., Invincible’s handling of Mark being raped by Annisa) can stumble or just suffer from subjective feelings that it could’ve done better.

The era of comics we are talking about was infamous for NOT making sure they could handle it thanks to people like DiDio pushing hard to jump headfirst into waters that the big two superheroes had rarely if ever dared to tread into, even during the Bronze and Dark Ages. And of course, DiDio and many of his cronies who did so were insensitive assholes who wouldn’t know gentle empathy if it bit them on the ass, so they were ESPECIALLY ill-equipped to handle these things.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#30993: Oct 14th 2023 at 6:38:23 AM

EVIL THAT MEN DO is a work that I feel is also very well-written and not at all a poor handling of the topic despite the fact, well, it exists because of a very flawed premise.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#30994: Oct 14th 2023 at 7:30:12 AM

Yeah, “Evil That Men Do” is honestly not that bad. Kevin Smith is a good writer and he really does try to handle the subject as sensitively and intelligently as possible. It’s just a faulty premise trying to tackle it with these characters. Especially with Black Cat, who’s always been a very sex positive person and Ms. Fanservice, so having her be the victim inadvertently feels like its playing into nasty misogynistic and puritanical stereotypes about people who like sex being broken and traumatized. If he had done it with an original character maybe it wouldn’t have come off as so out of touch and like something most would prefer to be non-canon.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#30995: Oct 14th 2023 at 8:47:08 AM

It doesn't help the story's case that the art objectifies Felicia so much.

I'm reminded of how X-23 was made into a former teen prostitute when she was integrated into the comics, something she wasn't in X-Men: Evolution for obvious reasons. I've seen one argument that the reason the teen prostitute angle feels exploitative is because it wasn't properly examined and then ignored after being introduced.

Maybe there's a writer out there who has the sensitivity and maturity to tell a story about Felicia and Peter as survivors of rape.

Edited by windleopard on Oct 14th 2023 at 4:47:49 PM

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#30996: Oct 14th 2023 at 8:56:35 AM

God, I had memory holed that whole bit of X-23’s history. With good reason, it’s so disgusting and uncomfortable and completely irrelevant to anything. Exactly what we’re talking about here, using an incredibly dark and complex subject that most stories don’t dare touch for clear reasons for cheap shock value and drama. I’m genuinely surprised Marvel hasn’t out and out declared that non-canon.

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#30997: Oct 14th 2023 at 9:44:16 AM

Yeah fuck that story. That was the most mind bogglingly dumb decisions because they had a perfectly serviceable story.

Clone daughter of Wolverine made by Hydra as a spy then goes awol to kill her clone father only for Logan to defuse the tyke bomb.

Boom story done. Buy no comic writers gotta add in the needless edge and suddenly Laura gets made into a child prostitute. Because the writer wanted to do a "very serious" story because Superhero comics are totally serious guys.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#30998: Oct 14th 2023 at 10:17:18 AM

> I'm reminded of how X-23 was made into a former teen prostitute when she was integrated into the comics

I heard about this but I heard she was'nt a 'teen' prostitute

now if you excuse I need to barf

Edited by Ultimatum on Oct 14th 2023 at 6:17:29 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#30999: Oct 14th 2023 at 12:49:56 PM

So as not to go too off topic, has Laura met any of the Spider-clones?

immortaleditor Since: Aug, 2023
#31000: Oct 14th 2023 at 12:52:30 PM

I don’t think so actually. Which is nuts because I feel her and Kaine would either get along amazingly or hate each other’s guts with no in-between.


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