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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

knightstorm Since: Feb, 2022
#30426: Sep 15th 2023 at 8:35:26 PM

[up]Yep. Everyone in this run has been horribly out of character to the point they could all be fakes and it would be perfectly plausible.

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#30427: Sep 15th 2023 at 8:45:33 PM

But then what would the real characters have been up to all this time?

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#30428: Sep 15th 2023 at 8:47:09 PM

Neo Secret Invasion?

Wake me up at your own risk.
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#30429: Sep 15th 2023 at 9:00:36 PM

It would be the most welcome synergy in a while if they used that to correct all this... not like it could possibly get much worse than the show.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#30430: Sep 15th 2023 at 9:01:49 PM

When Norman Osborn is acting more like MJ than MJ, something is wrong.

That aside, Wells seems to write anti-heroes/villains better supposedly judging by comments I see.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
knightstorm Since: Feb, 2022
#30431: Sep 15th 2023 at 9:13:51 PM

I think Wells would have been better off writing a creator owned project. Writing characters with well establish histories and personalities really isn't working.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#30432: Sep 15th 2023 at 9:20:00 PM

I think Wells is very good on other properties.

He's just uniquely bad on Spider-Man.

And I note that this applies to Mary Jane as well. Her children are DEAD and this is going to be a life-defining horrible moment for her for the rest of her life. See what happened to Wanda Maximoff and Donna Troy.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#30433: Sep 15th 2023 at 9:22:28 PM

Gonna be awkward if the writer doesn't want to deal with that kind of baggage and just dance around it.

Just like 616 Mayday.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
knightstorm Since: Feb, 2022
#30434: Sep 15th 2023 at 9:31:42 PM

The best thing to do is either reveal that MJ is a magic clone...or have her memories of the brats fade away since they weren't real...and were from an alternate timeline. Kind of a cheat...but fitting for this run.

Edited by knightstorm on Sep 15th 2023 at 9:32:00 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#30435: Sep 15th 2023 at 9:32:41 PM

I will laugh if it turns out MJ and Norman somehow swapped bodies before the run and that's how everything goes back to normal.

This would also mean that Paul has been fucking Norman the entire time.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
knightstorm Since: Feb, 2022
#30436: Sep 15th 2023 at 9:34:30 PM

And his final move will be to toss Paul off a bridge!

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#30437: Sep 15th 2023 at 10:13:56 PM

They're not gonna reveal MJ is an imposter or anything, the situation she was in was so absurd that it justifies any and all decisions made.

"MJ bonded with someone while trapped in an apocalyptic dimension where she was the only woman alive" says nothing about her character at all.

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#30438: Sep 15th 2023 at 10:37:01 PM

Skirts around the was in a committed relationship with Peter at the time and knowingly hooked up with Paul "I caused a genocide" Rabin.

Also makes the affair Peter's fault for him "always being a mess" while being needlessly cruel anytime he tries to be cordial post break up.

That says a lot about Wells' MJ.

Like fans would be after Peter's head if he did half this stuff to MJ if it wasn't an elseworld story like Assassin Spider-Man.

Edited by FKJ10 on Sep 15th 2023 at 10:38:50 AM

knightstorm Since: Feb, 2022
#30439: Sep 15th 2023 at 10:38:36 PM

The writer may feel it's justified...but a large number of readers don't. This is going to need to be cleaned up...and since everything has been so outlandish anyway...saying "MJ" is a fake works perfectly.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#30440: Sep 15th 2023 at 10:41:04 PM

If Wells only knows the Raimi movies, then that explains why his MJ is terrible.

She’s based on the worst one.[lol]

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
knightstorm Since: Feb, 2022
#30441: Sep 15th 2023 at 10:44:13 PM

And Wells' MJ managed to even surpass Raimi's in awfulness.[lol]

Edited by knightstorm on Sep 15th 2023 at 10:44:24 AM

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#30442: Sep 15th 2023 at 11:00:00 PM

Doesn't help the mystery box of

"What did Peter do?"

Amounted to burned every bridge in the superhero community to save MJ trapped in a another dimension who cheated on him with the guy that got her stuck their in the first place.

Seriously no amount or Spider-Totem bullshit will make me ever buy that it's was safer to keep MJ in that dimension than Peter.

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#30443: Sep 15th 2023 at 11:30:04 PM

To me, MJ is in the clear because of what Rabin did, he cast a spell on her, she's 'chained' to either the kids or to Paul. It's just the same as when she was under the OMD spell from Mephisto, she had two different boyfriends around that time and was cold/cruel to Peter for no reason, and we all know she recovered from that. WHEN Peter takes her back or vice versa I'll be fine with that.

Edited by Zarius on Sep 15th 2023 at 11:30:43 AM

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#30444: Sep 16th 2023 at 12:20:16 AM

Chained to the kids.

Not that being chained to Paul via hypnosis makes it any better as it changes MJ from a cheater to a rape victim.

Because MJ and Paul have been shown to be intimate in bed multiple times.

So Wells would have just pulled another "Rape of Ms. Marvel" in his bid to break up Peter and MJ for his "drama".

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#30445: Sep 16th 2023 at 12:59:10 AM

[up] They haven't been shown to be 'intimate' at all. They've only been shown to share a bed once. In fact that bed scene showed them as far apart as possible. Yes, there was hand holding towards the end of that scene, but that's really nothing, that was them doing the bare minimum to cope with losing the kids.

Until there's a kiss or a declaration of love, which hasn't happened at all, there's nothing there

Edited by Zarius on Sep 16th 2023 at 1:02:40 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#30446: Sep 16th 2023 at 1:53:24 AM

Gonna be awkward if the writer doesn't want to deal with that kind of baggage and just dance around it.

It's definitely something they should retcon.

But the "These are your chains" thing actually just makes it worse because it implies loving children is some sort of horrifying burden versus something Mary Jane (the real one) might actually do.

Even more so since they were adopted.

I also don't mind the, "Trapped on a Desert Island, you hook up with someone else" element. There's a reason that exists as a thought experiment. It's just Paul is particularly an awful choice.

Sort of like how Sins Past is horrifying because it's Norman Osborn when Gwen Stacy hooking up with, say, Harry would have been "okay, sure."

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 16th 2023 at 1:54:37 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#30447: Sep 16th 2023 at 1:54:31 AM

Oh god, untangling this weird drama is going to be a hell of a mess.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#30448: Sep 16th 2023 at 1:55:00 AM

I suggest they go with All Just a Dream.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 16th 2023 at 1:55:13 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#30449: Sep 16th 2023 at 2:09:27 AM

Aapparently Steve Ditko explained that initially he wanted to kill off Betty Brant early on, explaining, "I had this idea we establish a real romance between Betty Brant and Peter Parker and then have her die in some kind of accident - nothing criminal, just the kind of unfortunate tragedy that happens in real life. Stan said no, and he was right."

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#30450: Sep 16th 2023 at 3:19:07 AM

The way to deal with all the messiness of Wells' run is to just let the next creative team tell the story they want to tell. There's no need to retcon any of it, because - for the online bitching - most of the audience isn't hung up on it. Either they enjoy the story or they don't, but they're not weeping about how Spider-Man is Ruined Forever or anything like that. When the next creative team comes in and largely ignores the Wells run, the readers will go along with it, and forget this run actually happened, because really, who cares? It's comics. Bad stories happen, and things move on.

A small percentage of readers spend a lot of time thinking about the comics. The vast majority just read them and move on. It would be stupid of Marvel to spend any time worrying about how to satisfy the vindictive anger of a small number of readers, since that would come at the expense of letting creators tell stories they actually want to tell.

In all honesty, the more I see people here talking about how awful Paul is, the more I suspect that he's probably the blandest and most inoffensive character possible and that the hate is almost certainly ridiculously overblown.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

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