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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#30001: Aug 21st 2023 at 8:33:53 AM

[up][up] Again how is Punisher!Spider-Man simply just blowing hole in Goblin's chest worse compared to this?

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#30003: Aug 21st 2023 at 12:42:40 PM

So remember how in the 2000s we got two particularly infamous superhero stories about rape for shock value, each one from the Big 2 (Evil That Men Do and Identity Crisis)? Well, today I learned that One More Day would have been a third!

"Why didn't you just have Peter divorce MJ?" asked a fan.

"It would have been terrible for publicity," McCann answered.

"It really wouldn't have played well in red states," said Slott.

"I pitched having her raped then murdered", laughed Guggenheim.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#30004: Aug 21st 2023 at 12:52:53 PM

That’s not a great thing to laugh about

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#30005: Aug 21st 2023 at 12:56:09 PM

If I had a nickel every time a writer named Marc(k) "jokingly" suggested a female character being raped, I'd have two nickels. Which may not seem like much but it is very disturbing it's happened twice.

Especially when they already retconned one of Peter's love interests into a rape victim in a very tasteless story.

Edited by windleopard on Aug 21st 2023 at 8:56:22 PM

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#30006: Aug 21st 2023 at 12:57:54 PM

Was the lesson people learned from Identity Crisis really that it was good and we should do it again?

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#30007: Aug 21st 2023 at 1:01:35 PM

Keep in mind that it was a well-reviewed story at the time it came out. At least from critics and a bunch of comic professionals.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#30008: Aug 21st 2023 at 1:31:16 PM

Rape and death are mature, I swear guys!

ugh

CausativeDust Since: Apr, 2021
#30009: Aug 21st 2023 at 1:36:04 PM

I think I'll be the first to defend Peter's 'sacrifice' for Norman from a moral standpoint, since at this moment he's defending a repentant man from being magically converted back into his former, vile self. If he's gonna stick to a 'no killing' principle on the hope that his villains can be redeemed, then this action is a moral one. Also a dumb one, but that's not new for Pete either.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#30010: Aug 21st 2023 at 2:19:09 PM

"I pitched having her raped then murdered", laughed Guggenheim.

Holy shit, what an asshole.

Ultimate Spider-Man will be there at launch for the new Ultimate line

Given that Maker stopped Peter from being bit and they're keeping him secret, I'm guessing that Miles is going to be the first Spider-man in this verse.

Though given Miles originated in the ultimate verse it's weird that they'd make it that much of a secret if that's the case.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#30011: Aug 21st 2023 at 3:02:11 PM

I'm assuming they're just going to reboot the entire setting but until they do, I don't actually have a care about Ultimate Invasion. I don't care about Maker until the universe is up and running again.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Nofix from Over there Since: Jan, 2015
#30012: Aug 21st 2023 at 3:56:27 PM

It's kind of fitting that windleopard made a Power Rangers reference last page, since my preferred end for Norman was kind of like Diabolico's in Power Rangers Lightspeed Rescue. Dead, and showing up at the last second as a specter to drag another, much more evil and demonic, villain down to hell with him out a sense of hate for them, and Villain Respect towards the hero.

After all, only he is allowed to kill Spider-Man. Or something like that.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#30013: Aug 21st 2023 at 4:37:24 PM

> Rape and death are mature, I swear guys!

and they wonder why people don't read their spider comics (this is why)

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#30014: Aug 21st 2023 at 7:05:20 PM

[up][up]Problem is who is worse than Norman for Peter besides Carnage and even then he's more laughably evil for how 90s EXTREME he is.

Morlun had that mystique but to many Spiderverse crossovers made him a joke.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#30015: Aug 21st 2023 at 7:06:08 PM

I mean, Morlun is basically just Super-Morbius.

The reason he was the villain of Spider-Verse was they gave him a backstory that was utterly ridiculous but the previous books hadn't bothered to.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#30016: Aug 21st 2023 at 7:06:58 PM

IIRC Slott for one considers Otto to be Peter's "true" arch foe, and part of his intent with Superior was to cement that by giving Otto a deed even more iconically cruel than Norman killing Gwen. Did he succeed? Dunno.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Aug 21st 2023 at 9:07:32 AM

Kiobi20 Since: Sep, 2016
#30017: Aug 21st 2023 at 7:08:29 PM

[up] then why have the arc end by him being totally outplayed by Norman and forced to bring Peter back becouse he wasn't as great a foe as him?

Edited by Kiobi20 on Aug 21st 2023 at 7:08:48 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#30018: Aug 21st 2023 at 7:08:33 PM

I mean, it certainly didn't hurt Otto's prominence.

then why have the arc by him being totally outplayed by Norman and forced to bring Peter back becouse he wasn't as great a foe as him?

I mean, Otto sucks as a superhero.

Not that the Green Goblin is a genius. We've seen that when given ultimate power in the United States fascist government....he disintegrates completely within a few months. Otto's solution to super crime is to be a Police State.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 21st 2023 at 7:09:55 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#30019: Aug 21st 2023 at 7:17:57 PM

Let's put things into perspective who the public in recent years view as worse for Peter

Norman got regulated to mindless monster underling to Kingpin in ITSV while Octavia was the righthand woman

1 for Otto

Norman got top billing in NWH as the big bad with Otto being an ally midway through.

1 for Norman

Otto was the final boss in Insomniac Spider-Man but he like Mr. Negative were trying to get revenge on Osborn and was portrayed tragically.

Tie

Norman is now "reformed" in the comics with Otto back to basics.

1 for Otto

Otto has a comedy isekai Manga where he's in the body of a Japanese middle school girl trying to improve her life while get back to his body.

-1 for Otto

Norman is set up to be the big bag in Insomniac Spider-Man 2 with the Symbiote

1 for Norman

That's 3 for 2 as overall Otto is portrayed much more sympathetically than Norman outside the comics.

Plus let's be honest who has consistently hurt Peter the most

Killed his girlfriend, Gwen

Killed his infant daughter, Mayday (seriously why is Norman still alive after that)

Killed his clone brother, Ben

Killed his friend, Flash

Edited by FKJ10 on Aug 21st 2023 at 7:21:31 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#30020: Aug 21st 2023 at 7:27:36 PM

Eh, Ben's back.

Otto founded the Sinister Six as well.

He also managed to destroy Peter's company from BEYOND.

Otto also killed Captain Stacy.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 21st 2023 at 7:27:53 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#30021: Aug 21st 2023 at 7:31:53 PM

I said in recent years how they are viewed by the public Aka non comic fans.

Stealing a body and destroying a company (that Otto made) is one thing but killing loved one including a man's daughter that's a whole other level.

That's too personal and real beyond typical arching.

Hell the Otto isekai Manga references the Doc's escapades but treat them all as comedic as they ended the same. Spidey punching him in the face.

You can't do light hearted comedy for infanticide.

Even Captain Stacy's death was accidental as the man jumped to save a child from debris.

Norman's stuff was all premeditated

Edited by FKJ10 on Aug 21st 2023 at 7:33:50 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#30022: Aug 21st 2023 at 7:33:09 PM

I'm surprised Mayday is still canon at all tbh. Divorce would piss of the "red states" but not a child out of wedlock?

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#30023: Aug 21st 2023 at 7:39:33 PM

[up] And which got aborted on top of that (albeit not by either of the parents, but by a third party deliberately drugging the mother to induce early labor)?

Edited by TrashJack on Aug 21st 2023 at 10:41:05 AM

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#30024: Aug 21st 2023 at 7:53:06 PM

You can't really credit Otto for killing Captain Stacy when he wasn't even trying to do that. Peter made his arms go haywire and knock the rubble onto him. That's mostly on Peter.

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#30025: Aug 21st 2023 at 7:57:49 PM

Hence why Peter felt extremely guilty and never revealed his identity or proposed to Gwen.


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