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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29801: Aug 13th 2023 at 9:49:08 PM

Do the X-Men have any villains like Mysterio?

Old-Man Logan shows there's a good reason why Mysterio should never interact with the X-Men.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#29802: Aug 13th 2023 at 9:50:20 PM

Didn't they have Mastermind? And a Mysterio ruined things for them in Old Man Logan.

Wake me up at your own risk.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29803: Aug 13th 2023 at 9:50:56 PM

Yeah it was the third one. Who actually is a mutant, albeit with teleportation powers.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#29804: Aug 13th 2023 at 9:51:48 PM

Mastermind hasn't been used in like decades but yes, would be the kind of guy that Judas Traveler was stepping into the shoes of.

I think he died of the Legacy Virus in the Nineties.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#29805: Aug 13th 2023 at 9:57:45 PM

Funny that despite being one of the original Brotherhood members, Mastermind isn't really all that prominent. He played a part in the Dark Phoenix Saga, but other than that he has basically no notable stories.

Between this and Dark Tomorrow, Traveller's character is finally entering his renaissance. Or something.

Can something have a renaissance when there was never a "good" period to return to?

Edited by lbssb on Aug 13th 2023 at 12:59:19 PM

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#29807: Aug 14th 2023 at 12:15:36 AM

There's precisely one good Judas Traveler story in Clone Saga.

Judas appears to Spider-Man and starts saying that he's going to end up destroying New York one day due to his constantly pushing himself to fighting things that should be left to bigger heroes. So Judas offers to give him back a normal life and bring Aunt May Back from the Dead. Though he does say it will require a Human Sacrifice but it can be someone utterly evil.

Peter goes off on him and says that it would be dishonoring Aunt May's memory and that he'd have to be insane to accept a Deal with the Devil like that even if he believed Judas could do it.

...

Yes, you can guess why I think this is a good Judas Traveler story.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#29808: Aug 14th 2023 at 12:54:10 AM

How did Spidey and Judas end up in the Clone Saga? I don't think any of the X-books have acknowledged that Peter knows he's back. Then again, he's been largely offstage pulling strings via Orchis, so it's not as if the X-Men have fought him face-to-face yet.

I'm hoping this ends badly for him. Would be nice if Peter got to punch him once or twice along the way.

(And, yes, Mastermind's back as well - he got caught in a feud between Sinister and Arcade back in Hellions)

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#29809: Aug 14th 2023 at 1:09:18 AM

[up] Judas was largely incapacitated in his last Clone Saga appearance, betrayed by Scrier and his own group acting on orders from Norman. Only one member of the Host I believe stayed loyal to him and she contacted Ben to help rescue him, revealing he'd been a mutant carny the whole time and not some omnipotent being.

Nofix from Over there Since: Jan, 2015
#29810: Aug 14th 2023 at 3:28:33 AM

I just realized something. If Traveler were a more popular villain, or made reoccurring roles between the Clone Saga and now, he could have been one of the Thunderbolts or Dark Avengers (filling in for Doctor Strange). He's a complete fraud and not a magician, but that would be the point.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29811: Aug 14th 2023 at 3:29:59 AM

There’s no way he could be popular when even the writers hated him and had no idea where they were going with this.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#29812: Aug 14th 2023 at 5:39:19 AM

Well no one bothered to develop:

  • His backstory
  • Motivations
  • Why he was fucking with Peter

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#29813: Aug 14th 2023 at 6:07:13 AM

Old-Man Logan shows there's a good reason why Mysterio should never interact with the X-Men.

Comics like this and guardian devil in daredevil and ultimate marvel. Seems to indicate Mysterio could be a top tier threat to anyone not named Spiderman....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#29814: Aug 14th 2023 at 6:08:34 AM

Comics like this and guardian devil in daredevil and ultimate marvel. Seems to indicate Mysterio could be a top tier threat to anyone not named Spiderman....

Spencer showed a really good bit where Mysterio faked an alien invasion that got every hero fighting it.

Also, there's Far From Home.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#29815: Aug 14th 2023 at 6:15:21 AM

I think my question, post-retcon, is what Judas brings to Spider-Man that Mysterio doesn't. Very different personalities, but in practice a similar power set.

Which might be good for a "wait, not Mysterio this time" twist, but yeah, he needs that backstory snd character depth to work.

Maybe the fall of Orchis will give him some new elements to work with.

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#29816: Aug 14th 2023 at 6:25:21 AM

[up][up]I think they also retconned mysterio as to being part of the fake alien invasion Tinkerer committed in issue two, so I thought that was a full circle moment.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#29817: Aug 14th 2023 at 6:39:13 AM

Well Judas isn't a Spider-Man villain anymore so it's not even a conversation.

Mind you, I liked Mysterio's redemption with Mary Jane.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#29818: Aug 14th 2023 at 6:39:41 AM

There’s no way he could be popular when even the writers hated him and had no idea where they were going with this.

Why did they create him in the first place then?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#29819: Aug 14th 2023 at 6:42:13 AM

To extend the Clone Saga.

The TLDR of "The Life of Reilly" was the original Clone Saga was the only comic selling incredibly well during Marvel's bankruptcy so they had orders to keep it going well after they had plans of replacing Peter with Ben. Judas Traveler was meant to keep people invested in the "mystery" of who Judas was and his servant Scrier.

Judas would show up, comment on Spider-Man, tempt him, and torment him like, Ironically, Mephisto.

Then vanish.

No one knowing what his deal was.

Only later did they come up with Norman Osborn being behind both.

Note I read these comics via subscription when they came out and was a HUGE Spider-Man fan.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 14th 2023 at 6:43:09 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29820: Aug 14th 2023 at 7:03:17 AM

I'm still really impressed by Mysterio nearly driving Daredevil insane in Guardian Devil.

Matt has better senses than Peter arguably, so managing to fool him with illusions and practical effects is arguably more impressive.

I wanted to be impressed by what Mysterio did in Old Man Logan, but since it was a different Mysterio (who's an actual Mutant) I can't say if it's a feat Beck could have pulled, especially since X-Characters have a bigger monopoly on psychics than Disney on literally everything else.cool

One Strip! One Strip!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#29821: Aug 14th 2023 at 7:35:55 AM

Mysterio also did the fake alien invasion thing in the wonderful Spider-Man 2 video game, complete with somehow turning the Statue of Liberty into one of himself. [lol]

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#29822: Aug 14th 2023 at 7:48:46 AM

Judas Traveler was an attempt to give Spider-Man an X style bad guy. You know, long on mystery and vague powers and short on being interesting

The tail was wagging the dog pretty badly at the time

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29823: Aug 14th 2023 at 7:50:20 AM

Huh. Now I kinda want to see Beck go up against the X-men. Like, he need to avoid all the members with enhanced senses (so both Wolverines, Wolfsbane, etc) and every Psychic, and even characters with a wide range of attack like bounce optic blasts off walls Cyclops (does he still do that?) and just freeze everything Iceman, but against the right opponents, he'd be a real Outside-Context Problem.

Edit: He and Arcade should really team up. The latter is also a Spider-Man foe.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Aug 14th 2023 at 7:51:00 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#29824: Aug 14th 2023 at 7:51:36 AM

The thing about the enhanced senses thing is that they actually don't work on Mysterio's stuff because his gas causes you to hallucinate the senses that would normally let you see past them.

Really, it's only psychic issues that are the problem.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#29825: Aug 14th 2023 at 7:55:00 AM

Enhanced senses just give Mysterio more of an avenue to fuck with you. He can deaden spider sense, he can definitely make Wolverine smell something that’s not there

As for Mysterio fighting the X Men? I’m in favor. I’m in favor of mixing things up and having characters interact with different people than usual.

Let’s get some acts of vengeance going

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 14th 2023 at 10:55:19 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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