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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29451: Aug 6th 2023 at 10:13:33 AM

I guess no Spider-Man villain gets invited to these things.

Shame, if Norman was evil again, he'd have a hell of a time there.

Heck, Kingsley as well.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 7th 2023 at 1:13:44 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#29452: Aug 6th 2023 at 11:16:01 AM

There was the time Doc Ock tried to marry Aunt May. Does that count?

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#29453: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:01:03 PM

Jackal and Sinister made a mutant clone of Gwen Stacy who we saw in one of the digital comics living on Krakoa.

But usually, these guys avoid the x-men.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#29454: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:05:30 PM

Given that the X-Men and other Krakoans terraformed Mars in a single day... why pick a fight with them if you don't have to?

Especially given how many telepaths the mutants have, which is a power most Spider-villains aren't equipped to counter.

And as Krakoa's an isolationist utopia with no money, there's not much motive for the more mercenary villains to try to set up shop there.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29455: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:25:40 PM

While some Spidey villains have the potential to be high tier (Electro could probably be as powerful as Magneto if he wasn’t such a moron, and Sandman is pretty strong as well), the X-Men would probably take out a lot of them not just due to power, but pure teamwork.

One Strip! One Strip!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#29456: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:33:23 PM

Unre Lated but with Spot finally getting the potential he could have had in the animated films. We will probably see that make it to the comics.

Do you think they could do the same for electro. Guy could be an avengers level threat but is just held back. And unlike sandman w/o is a Nobel Demon , Dillion Is a pyshco.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#29457: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:35:44 PM

[up][up]And even the more powerful Spider-Man rogues could be beaten by an equally or less powerful X-Men by fighting smart.

The universe is really lucky that Electro and Hydro-Man are not very bright.

[up]If they do have them take a level in badass, they'd either have to move them beyond Spider-Man stories or limit their appearances to special occasions that bring in a lot of Spider-Man allies.

Edited by windleopard on Aug 6th 2023 at 8:37:01 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29458: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:35:58 PM

Depending on who is writing, Electro could just be a thug who wants money and isn't interested in mass murder.

I personally prefer him like that TBH. I just love the idea of a guy like him getting all this power and he can only think to rob banks and other petty crimes instead of thinking bigger.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#29459: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:38:28 PM

[up]Depending on how you look at it, him sticking to petty crime is pretty smart. Who wants the stress of having the Avengers, whose ranks include a lightning god, on your tail?

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29460: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:40:42 PM

Yeah that's true, but he could also set himself up as a walking unlimited power source and rake in the cash so he doesn't get punched by Spider-Man.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#29461: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:41:24 PM

I wonder if Vulture kicking spidey's ass and forcing him to (sigh...) work with Norman would have worked better If it was Dillion instead. Since unlike vulture he does have the potential to be that dangerous.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29462: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:43:32 PM

TBH, yeah. Maybe Electro could have gotten some kind of upgrade that he lost control of and became a massive threat to New York, which would be a more believable reason for Spidey to team up with Norman.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#29463: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:52:58 PM

There was an issue in that canceled Gwen Stacy miniseries where three fifths of the original X-men lineup (Iceman, Beast, Marvel Girl) try to fight Green Goblin and just get beat up, it was really interesting to see.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29464: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:57:30 PM

It is canon that once Norman Osborn stopped obsessing over Spider-Man, he's a Marvel wide threat that can work with the likes of Doom and Loki.

Heck, when Doc Ock took over Spider-Man, that just resulted in Green Goblin nearly taking over New York after taking over all of it's crime, and it was only the real Spider-Man who could stop him while the Avengers were nearly defeated by the Spider-Slayers.

And there's the start of Nick Spencer's run where Mysterio's plan has most of New York's heroes on the ropes till Spidey gets there. Not to mention, Mysterio was indirectly responsible for the deaths of the X-Men in the Old Man Logan timeline.

Yeah... really puts into perspective on how lucky the Marvel verse is that Spider-Man hasn't failed against any of his villains in the permanent sense, otherwise Norman would be ruling the world by now.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#29465: Aug 6th 2023 at 12:57:30 PM

Weirdly, Fisk has always been pro-mutant. He tried to cure the Legacy Virus.

Yeah... really puts into perspective on how lucky the Marvel verse is that Spider-Man hasn't failed against any of his villains in the permanent sense, otherwise Norman would be ruling the world by now.

I feel that's less a testament to Norman than the Character Shilling that Norman gets. Mind you, I acknowledge that a billionaire who murdered a young woman and is guilty as sin in a very public way getting away with followed by receiving a highly public government post is a lot more believable these days.

But buying Norman as powerful in a soft power way is different than believing he's stable enough to take over the underworld or defeat the Avengers.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 6th 2023 at 1:01:27 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29466: Aug 6th 2023 at 1:01:15 PM

[up]X4

I know that issue.

To be fair, this was them in their early days. Iceman isn’t a weather god yet, Jean is limited to TK, and probably wasn’t great at it, and Beast would been a maybe slightly stronger Spider-Man with no Spider-Sense from Norman’s point of view.

Plus Norman’s a complete unknown to them at that point.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Aug 6th 2023 at 1:01:41 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29467: Aug 6th 2023 at 1:03:56 PM

[up][up] What character shilling? Say whatever you want about Norman's rise, but he isn't no villain sue. Plus all the members of the Cabal weren't loyal at all. Plus Norman's had more experience with working with the greater Marvel verse thanks to his time as director of the thunderbolts.

But on topic, there's also the time Doc Ock almost burned the planet to death and technically defeated the Avengers. He legit would have won if Spider-Man didn't foil him at the crucial moment.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 6th 2023 at 4:04:53 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#29468: Aug 6th 2023 at 1:06:08 PM

Maybe I've missed something. But I didn't get that impression. When Norman tried being a big player outside spiderman. Doom and Loki played him like a fiddle. Showing him why he's not a big player like they are and the difference between a Smug Snake like Norman whose in over his head and a Magnificent Bastard like Loki and Doom who can back it up.

[up][up][up]Norman isn't a villain sue or anything. Hell Reign is basically loki turning him into his Unwitting Pawn.

Edited by miraculous on Aug 6th 2023 at 1:07:16 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29469: Aug 6th 2023 at 1:07:07 PM

Huh.

Kinda makes you think that, just like how Peter could be so much more if not for his flaws, many Spiderman villains have the potential to be major players in the world if not for their issues, hangups, etc.

That's a nice bit of contrast between them.

One Strip! One Strip!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29470: Aug 6th 2023 at 1:07:27 PM

[up][up]Yeah he might not be on the exact level of Doom and Loki, but you gotta admit, the Dark Reign era was a pretty impressive time for him even if he squandered it.

[up] Yeah the point of my posts were that Spidey's rogues do have the potential to be greater threats but it's thanks to their own flaws and Spidey that they mostly stay street level.

Because I firmly believe Norman would be ruling the world if it wasn't for Spider-Man. Heck, he basically does in the Spider-Norman timeline since HE"S the one bitten by the spider, not Peter.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 6th 2023 at 4:11:50 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#29471: Aug 6th 2023 at 1:15:57 PM

Oh yeah I do think Norman did a decent job. But as noted. I Do think he went into with too big an ego that it eventually blew up when fAced with Guys who've done .complex evil schemes for decades.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29472: Aug 6th 2023 at 1:18:11 PM

Yeah. But he did stay an Avengers level threat for a good amount of time, and when he came back to the Spider-books, it was to utterly destroy everything Spider-Ock built.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/goblin_win.png

One of my favorite parts in this series.

NGL, I enjoyed Gold Goblin far more than I did all of Superior Spider-Man volume 1.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Aug 6th 2023 at 4:20:34 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#29473: Aug 6th 2023 at 1:30:39 PM

I've always liked how Spiderman exists as a street level hero most of the time, but can quickly remind people that he punches way below his weight class.

This leads to frequent but always cool moments when he goes up against someone else's rogues gallery and they realize that Spiderman really pulls his punches.

Incidentally this also means that the Spidey villains who can go toe to toe with him also ends up surprising the heavy hitter heroes when they branch out.

#IceBearForPresident
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29474: Aug 6th 2023 at 1:34:57 PM

Sandman was fighting the FF for a bit, and Rhino was briefly a hulk villain.

All these guys could do so much more.

There's also a reason Peter can take on entire teams of villains (and sometimes heroes) all on his own.

This is something that remains consistent no matter how much some think Marvel tends to botch him.

One Strip! One Strip!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29475: Aug 6th 2023 at 1:36:07 PM

Reminder that it's thanks to RYV Spidey and his amazing family that their version of the Marvel universe isn't being ruled by a boring Darkseid wannabe.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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