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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29051: Jul 25th 2023 at 8:11:08 AM

It's important to note that when Frank kills Spidey in Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe, his only response when Spiderman asks why is someone had to be first.

The idea being, he had nothing bad to actually say about Spidey, he just happened to start with him.

One Strip! One Strip!
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#29052: Jul 25th 2023 at 8:13:28 AM

Honestly with Spider-Man Garth seems very ambivalent to him. Not the burning hatred he has for Wolverine or Captain America.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29053: Jul 25th 2023 at 8:16:56 AM

His hatred for Cap is even stupider.

For an avowed WWII buff he doesn't seem to know that Cap was actually popular with soldiers back then and was even written by vets.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29054: Jul 25th 2023 at 8:21:24 AM

Yeah. That's weird.

And like, he should know by now right?

Maybe he is aware, and just doesn't care.

Or by the time he found out, his own feelings were too firmly set.

Or that's just an excuse and there's another reason he hates Captain America.

One Strip! One Strip!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29055: Jul 25th 2023 at 8:28:52 AM

[up][up] Yeah, it's idiotic that Ennis claimed to be championing vets by insulting something that vets actually worked on/liked.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#29056: Jul 25th 2023 at 8:35:01 AM

I mean, Ennis is a military fetishist who talks about how they're the real badasses and superheroes are stupid. He's also annoyed with superheroes because he'd really rather be doing comics of literally anything else.

It's why The Boys on Amazon is better because it's not just a satire of superheroes but corporate culture and America as a whole.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29057: Jul 25th 2023 at 8:36:38 AM

I guess Garth Ennis is salty about the times Spider-Man fought against the military.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29058: Jul 25th 2023 at 8:47:57 AM

Makes it great when wacky supervillains makes total chumps out of military guys.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#29059: Jul 25th 2023 at 8:48:11 AM

Even the original boys satarized corporate America with the ending of Stillwell explaining to Huey how he will get away with everything.

Honestly Ennis' opinions on Superheroes is understandable

"I find most superhero stories completely meaningless," Ennis said. "Which is not to say I don’t think there’s potential for the genre – Alan Moore and Warren Ellis have both done interesting work with the notion of what it might be like to be and think beyond human, see Miracleman, Watchmen and Supergod. But so long as the industry is geared towards fulfilling audience demand – ie, for the same brightly coloured characters doing the same thing forever – you’re never going to see any real growth. The stories can’t end, so they’ll never mean anything."

The very unending nature of super hero comics means there's no finality. It's why I always remember that the most famous version of iconic characters

DCAU Batman 90s TAS Spider-Man

Was because those stories had an ending. Even if the latter with Spider-Man was an open one it was a hopeful conclusion.

Spider-Man by marvel editorials own demands means the character can't meaningfully grow like he does in MC 2 or Spiderverse. The latter which is gonna end with the third movie.

Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 25th 2023 at 8:48:40 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29060: Jul 25th 2023 at 8:48:46 AM

[up][up]Yeah, there's that one story where Doc Ock gave Spidey amnesia and they raided a military base together.

Or something like that.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 25th 2023 at 11:49:06 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29061: Jul 25th 2023 at 8:50:31 AM

This from the guy who's epitome of character designs is guy in black trench coat.

I don't take anything he says with any seriousness or validity. His works have no more worth than any normal superhero comic, them having gore and characters yelling racial slurs doesn't make them better.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#29062: Jul 25th 2023 at 8:52:56 AM

That’s a surprisingly less spiteful explanation than I expected from Ennis. I myself have felt that the “endlessness” of superhero stories gets obnoxious at times.

And yes, DCAU for life!

ThunderboltZekesAlt Bringer of Chaos from Theosoir, Tantal Since: Nov, 2022
Bringer of Chaos
#29063: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:00:13 AM

Isn't the DCAU the one that caused the "babs fucking bruce" thing in the killing joke movie? If so, no thank you.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#29064: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:03:48 AM

The DCAU never adapted Killing Joke, though IIRC Batman Beyond mentioned that Babs dated Bruce for a time which a lot of people found weird due to the age gap.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29065: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:08:12 AM

Killing Joke is a separate movie Bruce Timm made

It's not connected to the DCAU, it's just a logical conclusion of Timm's incessant desire to ship Bruce and Babs

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 25th 2023 at 9:10:58 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#29066: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:10:10 AM

Thank you, didn’t know that movie existed.

Back on topic of Spider-Man but still also on the topic of shipping, curious, are there any notable adaptations where Peter is paired with someone other than the MJ/Gwen/Felicia holy trinity? Does MCU Michelle “count” as MJ?

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#29067: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:14:43 AM

Even that is understandable when you remember Timm is an old school Batman fan that grew up when Batgirl was closer in age to Batman than Robin.

Would it have been less creepy to have introduced Barbara as an established mid 20s career woman yes . But other writers preferred Dick and Babs together so our generation grew up with them in the same age group.

It's honestly similar to the Miles and Gwen Stacy situation. The original Gwen was much older than Miles but she's long gone and in her place is a much younger version with a completely different personality.

Young enough that 616!Peter is her college professor so any shipping between 616!Peter and 65!Gwen is instant nope.

Just like modern Batman and Batgirl as she's been retconned to have been a child when Batman was in his first years as a super hero.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#29068: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:16:30 AM

Michelle is blatantly an adaptation of MJ so she counts

Spectacular Spidery Man dated Liz Allen for a while before dumping her for Gwen and ending up with nobody. Does that count?

[up] There’s still an age gap between comic Spider Gwen and Miles. She’s in college - unless she dropped out - and he’s perpetually in high school.

Edited by Bocaj on Jul 25th 2023 at 12:18:11 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#29069: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:30:49 AM

That's the same age gap of Dick and Barbara in modern times. She's at most a few years older than Dick depending on the version.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29070: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:31:52 AM

Yeah but Dick and Babs are both adults currently, while Miles isn’t unlike Gwen.

I think that relationship was a case of Bendis legitimately not knowing a single thing about Gwen before he forced her into a crossover with his Miles book.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 25th 2023 at 9:32:38 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#29071: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:33:17 AM

Bend is only caring about his corner of the Marvel verse is consistent with him TBH.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#29072: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:35:33 AM

Still get shipped together. Heck in Across the Spiderverse Miles' mom brings up that Gwen is obviously older than her son.

In the comics they are married with kids in an alternate universe.

Ironically in terms of ages Peni (14) is closer to Miles (15). Maybe that's why they blew up in popularity in Latin America.

Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 25th 2023 at 9:38:27 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29073: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:41:47 AM

Said alternate-universe marriage came from Bendis during the romance arc he made. It was the "if they got together their universe would be a utopia" thing.

The original context tends to be forgotten since Miles has gotten a little older since Bendis started writing him, but the romance happened in Bendis' second Miles comic where he was still pretty young while Gwen's ongoing on the time showcases she is pretty much a grown-ass woman by that point.

So she was essentially dating a minor.

I'm don't think comic Gwen and Miles have been shipped much ever since the dating arc ended. Miles at least has been dating love-interests within his own cast circle since.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 25th 2023 at 9:46:38 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#29074: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:45:46 AM

I'll chalk that up to Bendis thinking that 65!Gwen Stacy was the similar age to 1610!Gwen....who Miles is actually afraid of funny enough.

Makes this hilarious in hindsight as 1610!Black Cat threw up upon realizing she made out with a minor.

[up] Yeah but all of Miles' other love interests have been bland and forgettable with little to no fan following.

As of Across the Spiderverse his most popular ships have been

Gwen (to Dr. Umar's ire)

Spider-Byte (to Dr. Umar's delight)

And Peni (to Dr. Umar's confusion)

Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 25th 2023 at 9:49:14 AM

lycropath Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#29075: Jul 25th 2023 at 9:59:40 AM

Pete never got this sort of heat for dating Betty [lol]


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