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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28926: Jul 23rd 2023 at 5:36:32 AM

I'm more interested in what kind of bullshit happens with Spider-Goblin. It sounds so fucking stupid that it might surpass the Clone Saga in terms of bad.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#28927: Jul 23rd 2023 at 5:37:02 AM

Honestly not bad. I think a street hero vs street villain brawlfest could be fun.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#28928: Jul 23rd 2023 at 5:41:15 AM

I mean Devil's Reign was the Spider-Man edition of Devil's Reign.

Kingpin had a pretty huge role in Spider-Man under Spencer. Larger than he'd had in decades.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28929: Jul 23rd 2023 at 5:46:27 AM

I do remember the first issues establishing he was Kindred’s willing servant.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#28930: Jul 23rd 2023 at 5:51:51 AM

Yep. Right up until Fisk got the Tablet and didn't need him anymore.

So Harry is dead again, right?

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 23rd 2023 at 5:52:12 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28931: Jul 23rd 2023 at 5:57:16 AM

Yeah. Not sure how long it’ll last but Peter doesn’t have much of a supporting cast nowadays.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28932: Jul 23rd 2023 at 5:57:19 AM

[up][up] If it involves more sin erasure or sin transfer I'm gonna throw up.

That has got to be the dumbest version of redemption. At least with Axis it was temporary and Cletus died at the end.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28933: Jul 23rd 2023 at 6:09:15 AM

Axis was funny when it came to Hobgoblin and Carnage.

But using something like the morality inversion spell thing or sin shotgun whatever in a serious context doesn't work for me.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#28934: Jul 23rd 2023 at 6:14:20 AM

I'm more interested in what kind of bullshit happens with Spider-Goblin. It sounds so fucking stupid that it might surpass the Clone Saga in terms of bad.

Can't say I'm not surprised that that's more interesting. If only because it elicits the quickest "NO THANKS" out of me. Like, it could work, but as a "What If", not in the main book, where it'll be in our minds until someone retcons it in 20 years or whatever. (Heck, didn't Spider-Girl have a story where Peter gets Goblin'd?)

Honestly not bad. I think a street hero vs street villain brawlfest could be fun.

Maybe it could be.

But Zeb Wells' first year with our favorite wall-crawler has been beyond messy. The guy legit played off his killing off Kamala as a joke. That's just...NO.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#28935: Jul 23rd 2023 at 6:15:14 AM

Hobgoblin was at least clever about it.

He was still a tenacious ruthless businessman, only his business' switched from villain identities to hero identities.

So little actually changed about him.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28936: Jul 23rd 2023 at 6:16:52 AM

Exactly why I hate Norman and Gold Goblin after everything he did. Him being a hero and not on death row is absurd.

His mere presence in stories like Judgement Day ruins an otherwise passable (at least no by the art) story.

Plus Ben his victim being forced into villainy from Wells' bad writing is beyond annoying. Literal situation of we could have avoided this plot with a two minute conversation.

Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 23rd 2023 at 6:18:45 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28937: Jul 23rd 2023 at 6:26:51 AM

[up][up] Yeah, Hobgoblin would be a more fun option than Green Goblin to turn to a good guy.

Granted, he is also guilty of a shit ton of crimes himself but he's less cruel about his supervillainy except for maybe the constant mind controlled patsies.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#28938: Jul 23rd 2023 at 6:27:37 AM

I mean, we had a good guy Green Goblin, a random runaways miniseries just dashed all hope of doing anything with poor Phil.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28939: Jul 23rd 2023 at 6:29:55 AM

Isn't Phil evil now though?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28940: Jul 23rd 2023 at 6:36:36 AM

Difference is Robert Kingsley isn't an insane insecure sociopath like Norman.

He's just greedy and let's be honest the entire reason for the multiple patsies is because of marvel editorial fighting and firing eachother over who was the Hobgoblin.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28941: Jul 23rd 2023 at 6:39:51 AM

Yeah, so he's a lot more easy to make into that comically greedy superhero without it being too jarring.

Even Carnage's turn to good was more played for laughs than actually treated seriously like Gold Goblin.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#28942: Jul 23rd 2023 at 8:24:05 AM

To be fair Hobgoblin used patsies even before all the tug of war. It was part of what set him apart from Norman. Instead of immediately using goblin gear and drugs on himself, he tried it on someone else

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28943: Jul 23rd 2023 at 8:32:02 AM

I was talking about the morality here, because it is a pretty fucked thing to do.

Especially to Ned. Like all that mind control fucked up his brain and made him abusive to Betty, destroyed his personal life, and caused him to die violently.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#28944: Jul 23rd 2023 at 9:19:59 AM

I'm not actually sure we can blame Kingsley for Ned being a bad husband. Even with Spencer's retcon, he didn't take the serum until after he got into a fight with Flash, meaning that everything leading into Betty's affair was on him.

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28945: Jul 23rd 2023 at 10:24:34 AM

Nah just blame Ned on editor Jim Owsley who revealed then killed off Ned Leeds in Spider-Man vs Wolverine to spite Tom Defalco.

Except Defalco was lying because he intended for Richard Fisk to be Hobgoblin but said so to see if his boss would screw him over. He was right

All straying away from Roger Stern's original intent of it being Robert Kingsly who had long since left Spider-Man because "surprise" he hated his editor Tom Defalco.

So Hobgoblin's identity crisis is best summarized by editors and writers going fuck you to eachother.

Changing a banal coworker/romantic rival to Peter into a calculating villain. It's so absurd that the MCU movies just parody the idea of Ned becoming a bad guy.

Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 23rd 2023 at 10:28:48 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#28946: Jul 23rd 2023 at 11:11:54 AM

Production side politics are always fascinating and a little like a baby fight

Edited by Bocaj on Jul 23rd 2023 at 2:12:51 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#28947: Jul 23rd 2023 at 11:24:10 AM

It appears there will be another Spider-Gwen series launching in December, her band will be going on tour.

Edited by Zarius on Jul 23rd 2023 at 11:24:37 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#28948: Jul 23rd 2023 at 11:25:49 AM

Yes, yes, finally something fun and interesting that doesn't have Gwen cosplaying as other characters [tup][awesome]

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 23rd 2023 at 11:26:02 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28949: Jul 23rd 2023 at 11:26:55 AM

Gwen def needs to expand on her own cast and setting again.

Maybe one day we’ll find out how she defeated the Storm siblings.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28950: Jul 23rd 2023 at 11:31:50 AM

I've actually been afraid Spider-Gwen would end up like Power Girl and Miles. The only surviving members of their dead (unpopular) universe

The Gwenverse stuff is funny and oddly ironic it's all about a love interest killed off by a writer for being a "nothing character"


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