This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.
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which covers them.
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Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM
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Well first I derisively refer to those three examples as such as I have no respect for those stories. As they are written with the sole intention just to hurt/humiliate Peter for a cheap laugh (Felicia) or drama (Gwen/MJ)
Second the Gwen example is the literal definition of the term. Gwen, who Peter was trying to propose to, cheated on him with Norman got pregnant and wanted him to raise Norman's kids with her before Green Goblin killed her.
Third Peter was dating MJ at the time and were about to move in before Paul's genocidal dad, Rabin, appeared out of nowhere and telephoned them to Paul's dimensions. So MJ straight up just cheated on Peter while she and the story continues to make it Peter's fault.
Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 19th 2023 at 3:26:49 AM
Felicia is one of the best ponies in Marvel and deserves to be able to hook up with whoever she wants.
I also note that "Sins Past" wouldn't have been a terrible story if Gwen's kids had been by Harry.
Which makes sense.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Sins Past was always going to have issues, regardless of what version they used, but if they absolutely had to use it, I feel like a version where a retired Peter and MJ find out that Peter had long-lost kids by Gwen (just normal, regular children she gave up for adoption that somehow ended up in Peter's life) would have been the least worst option.
Not necessarily great, it still kind of character assassinates Gwen, but it would have been somewhat of an understandable path she took.
On the plus side Mayday would have some new siblings to play with. That's at least something.
Yeah but Joe Quesada didn't want to do a interesting drama with Peter realizing two of now long dead closest companions betrayed him at their lowest points.
Harry (drug addiction) Gwen (dead father)
Joe simply chose Norman because the kids being Peter would age him too much. Plus Norman being revealed to be the baby daddy would freak fans out and "knock Gwen off her pedestal".
More reason why I say Joe was the worst thing to happen to the franchise.
Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 19th 2023 at 5:25:15 AM
Quesada also literally thought people in the 21st-fucking-century would have a problem with the idea of a non-married couple having sex and producing children. He outright tries to imply that Peter and Gwen, two consenting college-age adults in a relationship, never had sex, which is... highly improbable.
Edited by lbssb on Jul 19th 2023 at 8:27:49 AM
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks MarathonSome days I feel bad for Quesada, since I honestly think when he dies he's be remembered for Mephisto's deal and literally nothing else he's ever done in comics.
But then I remember I don't actually know what else he's done in comics, and that he's responsible for the worst, most hamfisted, decision for any major comic character ever and has poisoned the well going forward for everyone involved, and I kind of stop caring about his reputation.
I'm still of the opinion they should have just closed the book on 616!Gwen's character with Spider-Man blue.
No sins past, no clone conspiracy and no Nick Spencer having to sacrifice the Kindred Saga to fix Quesada's mess.
Let the poor girl rest in peace and bring in 65!Gwen to have her multiverse adventures.
It's not even a Sliding Time Scale issue because the original ones were two consenting college age kids in the Sixties.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Superheroes and superpowered adventures are impossible, so we more easily accept them as a thing that happens in this universe.
Meanwhile, young adults going to college and living on their own for the first time and being sexually active is a real thing that actually happens. Them not screwing is, well it's unlikely. I'm not going to say it completely ruins my suspension of disbelief, but it's definitely something I'd raise an eyebrow at if an author insisted was a plot point.
It's hard to separate the weird puritan issues of Spider-Man as a brand from Quesada's own hangups. Also, the desire to age Peter down and the lengthy continuity.
- According to a contract for movie rights: Peter can't kill people, sell drugs, or say fuck. However, he CAN do all this if he wears the Black Costume.
- They want Peter to be a young bachelor but the Sins Past gave his girlfriend adult-aged kids (then retconned them as being radioactive super-aged ten year olds and no one questions this)
- Quesada doesn't want Peter to have a divorce but Satanic pacts are an option.
I love how the legal contracts explicitly specify that Symbiote Spidey can sell drugs in a movie. Did Bully Maguire have a side hustle we weren't made privy to?
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks MarathonTheir married I guess. Like it is canonical that Peter and Mj do BDSM with his webbing.
Also may be wanting to avoid the Spider-Man reign plotline being canon of spider man stuff causing her to get to radiation.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Her doctor: “You have an unusual resistance to radiation damage”
MJ: “HAH!”
Doctor: “Um?”
MJ: “Private joke”
Forever liveblogging the AvengersThere was also Spider-Man: The Gilded Cage, a canceled mid-80s graphic novel that had Spider-Man get mowed down by a machine gun and be nursed back to health by Carla DelVeccio, a mob boss's wife, and eventually romance her.
Jim Shooter approved the story but the artist team was delayed so much that by the time they got to work on it, the editor had changed to Tom DeFalco, who killed the story. What remains of the story can be found as a rough draft
, a Cracked article
with some pages colored in, and a summary
with some black-and-white pencils.
@Aleistar I hate that stupid mentality because it's a huge double standard. Peter can't have an out of wedlock child with Felicia or sex before marriage with Gwen because he sells merchandise to kids.
But Iron Man and Wolverine can drown their problems in alcohol and lots of "out of wedlock sex". Logan has alot of illegitimate kids besides Daken yet they got a huge amount of toys for toddlers to teens.
I'm at least glad the Insomniac games took the idea of Peter and Felicia having a kid but Felicia using it as leverage to get Peter to help with a heist.
I'd really think it would be interesting if Insomniac!Felicia was telling the truth. She does have a kid with Peter but prefers being a thief over anything resembling a functional let alone traditional family with Spidey.
Maybe Peter could use that as a lesson to Miles.
Peter: Don't fall for morally ambiguous villaonesses. It never works out....and child support is a bitch.

2/3
And while he wasn't dating Felicia he was trying to hook up with her
But he was just written terribly in that issue, the writer really going out of their way to shit on him