This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.
- Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
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- Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread
which covers them.
Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.
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Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM
Well @Zarius in regards to Gwen Stan Lee wanted her to be with Peter originally MJ was just too popular to ignore and Conway just straight up didn't like her. Hence killing her off in favor of his preferred ship with MJ.
All the stuff in the modern comics from the "perfect clone Gwen" saying she would have lost out to MJ or MJ continuing to bemone she's Gwen's replacement is just Marvel dangling the will they won't they carrot with MJ infront of fans heads.
Hence giving more prominence to the Black Cat and MJ love triangle instead of just letting Peter and MJ be married as they were for 20 years.
We'll also never know what the original plans with Gwen would have been as her creator, Steve Ditko, left severed all ties with Marvel and Stan Lee.
Ideally, I wouldn't have leaned as much into the perfect clone Gwen's testimony as I did, but given the rules of the Conspiracy story were that these doubles all had the 'souls' of the originals, it was worth mentioning, we had gotten the "real" Gwen back briefly, a taste of what how'd she be handled in modern comics, and it turns out she'd have the same insecurities MJ has in regards to her or Felicia, believing she wasn't good enough for Peter even without knowing who he was.
Edited by Zarius on Jul 8th 2023 at 1:32:36 AM
I suppose the grinch outfit was supposed to signify that this weird dude was the new Green Goblin type guy for the book.
But then they killed him off, brought him back as the Joker, killed him off, brought back the Green Goblin, and brought back the Jackal
So he doesn’t need to be green if he can be a sharp dressed man
Forever liveblogging the AvengersI guess if the original scheming Hobgoblin was around instead of Macendale, it would be plausible he could engineer the clone saga and be used to clean up that mess instead of revealing Norman was just on an extended European vacation and cult building exercise
Although. There were plausible alternatives for the mastermind at the time. But Norman was railroaded as the answer over other candidates
Edited by Bocaj on Jul 8th 2023 at 9:24:49 AM
Forever liveblogging the AvengersI dunno, it was a point that the Hobgoblin Kingsley was sane and didn't have much of a personal grudge against Spidey, just preferring to make money instead of wasting his time on convoluted revenge schemes against Spidey.
How would the clone saga benefit Kingsley?
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"He’d have to find out Spider-Man is Peter and also decide to try to destroy his sense of reality over a period of years instead of just blowing up his house while he was asleep
Forever liveblogging the AvengersI'm saying in general not specific to the jumbled mess that was the clone saga as the only justification there was Norman is iconic and fans would freak at his return +20 years after his original death.
The craziest thing Norman did before this reveal was kill Gwen Stacy.
Norman being brought back was a sign the Spider-Man comics were regressing which has only proven itself tru through recent years.
Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 8th 2023 at 8:30:19 AM
Norman (Death of Gwen Stacy)
Harry (Spectacular Spider-Man #200)
Kraven (Last Hunt)
Ben Reiley (Clone Saga)
Doc Ock (Superior Spider-Man)
All should have stayed dead with no resurrection.
Heck I'll even throw Morlun in here as everything after the first Spiderverse comic was just brand synergy with the movies.
Plus it only really draws more attention to that Spidey's other rogues: Electro; Shocker; Vulture; Rhino and even Kingpin (he's better with Daredevil) are really underutilized.
Also speaking of Daredevil. Spidey having his secret identity exposed in What if Spidey saved Gwen Stacy? wasn't nearly as bad as what happened to Matt Murdock in born again.
I mean Gwen isn't addicted to heroin and reduces to prostitution to feed her addiction like Karen Page.
Nor did Peter lose all his friends, support system, go through a nervous breakdown and get his home blown up.
So I'd say that ending was bitter sweet at best.
Gwen is still alive well, fully accepts Peter and Spider-Man (ride or die) and Robbie is helping as well. Honestly in that What if Peter could make a deal with Shield for amnesty in exchange for his services.
Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 8th 2023 at 9:35:57 AM
Yeah but honestly Superior Spider-Man gave Doc Ock a better send off and as much as I criticize Dan Slott he truly gave Otto his best story.
Also speaking of stories the latest Silk series has an interesting premise showing how insecure Cindy's btother is with his super powered older sister.
Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 8th 2023 at 10:11:36 AM
Uh doubt marvel would have gone with that. Having both of spidey's arch enemies permanently dead would have been too much.
I like shocker and vulture but their not really charActers meant to be big things. I remember one of the biggest critiques of Zeb's run being Peter losing to vulture a guy he beats up all The time.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."It's the difference between homecoming and Zeb Wells's run
Homecoming: Justified this is still a young rookie spiderman a few years into being a hero and his first major villain. So of course he'd have issues with Keaton's Vulture especially after Tony takes his upgraded suit away.
Zeb Wells'run: No excuses. Peter is a grown ass man and it's been established multiple times that him not pulling his punches can at best punch a man's jaw clean off and at worse kill them. Him begging Norman of all people for help is all kinds of pathetic.
Plus you don't even have to make them stronger just give them an interesting story.
Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 8th 2023 at 10:35:36 AM

I doubt this is a permanent thing.
I think some comic fans should embrace the temporary nature of changes for the ride they are.
See the Emma Frost and Tony marriage that will undoubtedly be a trainwreck.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.