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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

Antiyonder (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#28351: Jul 3rd 2023 at 9:42:32 PM

Which factors in greatly with how Spider-Man is written and how Marvel fears he'll become unrelatable if he gets married.

Well and their tactics of how any response to their stuff is good for business even if negative in relation to poor writing is something with possibly more merit before the information age when going down to get an actual book was necessary.

So yeah behind the times indeed.

Heck, sometimes I think the main continuum is bad enough that I'd rather just have both Spider-Girl and Renew Your Vows as regular options. One where Peter is retired while still having a wife and child, and another where he is a husband, father and active hero.

Also as an aside, Ben Reilly Spider-Man (available in trade) and Spider-Man The Lost Hunt (Trade came out I think if not soon) are good to pick up. And they do not fall into the OMD retcon, so acknowledgement of marriage is a thing.

Turns out long term companionship is important and not this terrible trap sitcoms made it out to be. You just gotta make it work.

There is that, but people need to be permitted to do so for themselves first and foremost rather than to appease society as a whole.

People who made it work arguably are more likely to have wanted such regardless.

Edited by Antiyonder on Jul 3rd 2023 at 9:53:05 AM

Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#28352: Jul 3rd 2023 at 11:25:21 PM

"The idea that all women are ball-busting slave-master shrews" Reminds me of the story Seth Rogen tells about when he was writing 'Neighbours' and wrote the wife character as a joykill, and Rogen's own wife said, "Why don't you make her funny?"

It's still an ongoing problem in fiction. It's so rare to find a story where the girl is the weird, goofy, reckless dumbass, and the guy is just trying to clean up after her.

I remember when Silk showed up in Robbie Thompson's Spider-Man/Deadpool run, she was a humourless buzzkill. Thompson wrote her as kind of a dumbass in her own solo, but as soon as guys are the focus, she has to become the generic humourless buzzkill.

It's honestly kinda frustrating. Not just because it's misogynistic, but because it's boring. It's so overdone. It's falling back on lazy cliches.

Make Peter's next girlfriend a sweet, wonderful bimbo. With big muscles, because come on, people are into that shit these days, lean into it, Marvel.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#28353: Jul 3rd 2023 at 11:30:36 PM

They definitely won't have a woman act like a bimbo unless it's in a story with women.

Ties to that overcompensation issue, they are afraid to have a woman portrayed as particularly flawed cause it might be seen as offensive.

It's why Jeff Lemire's Hawkeye run was so bad because it veered full into positive discrimination by portraying Kate Bishop as infallibly perfect and Clint as a worthless fuck dragging her down. When the previous run by Fraction was careful to keep things even and actually show Kate as a flawed individual able to fail and take hits just like Clint.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28354: Jul 4th 2023 at 12:40:37 AM

[up][up]Problem is comics and frankly alot of American entertainment is centered around the girl boss archetype.

Where the girls act like your typical 80s action movie hero without the charisma because 9/10 it was the actor themselves that made the role (Stallone, Bruce Willis, Arnold etc).

Alot of American entertainment would benefit by just embracing the girl failure. You don't even have to make her a bimbo just kinda dumb, funny but pitiable for when they fail and cry.

Anime does this alot to great success. Look at Konosuba all three heroines are complete girl failures and they are the most popular/recognizable girls in the isekai genre.

Silk is at her best when she tries to be serious but is really just as lost in the sauce as Peter.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#28355: Jul 4th 2023 at 12:41:03 AM

That's reminds me of why i liked the Looney Tunes Show portrayal of Lola Bunny, she was allowed to be as silly as the other characters.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#28356: Jul 4th 2023 at 12:50:12 AM

Black Panther also infamous suffers from this. All the women are unbearable hardasses who constantly lecture BP about how much he sucks and BP is portrayed as a total whining loser compared to them. This is how the series winds up breaking its own intended themes or messages, because while it endlessly derides T'Challa for being a dictator, the Dora are allowed to engage in blatant acts of imperialism but are celebrated for it cause they are such "bosses"

[up] That is the best version of Lola yeah, she is actually allowed to be funny like an actual Looney Tune. Compared to Space Jam 1 where she's a sexy prop while in Space Jam 2 they make a girlboss Its telling that her appearance in Wonder Woman's world was more about her proving herself as a badass hero while the other worlds the characters appeared in just had them funny stuff and twists with the settings.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28357: Jul 4th 2023 at 12:59:13 AM

We gotta tie this back to Spider-Man somehow.

I don't think Spider-Man has had much problems with the Girl Boss.

In fact, Spider-Man lacks female villains. Even new ones like Francine Frye are forgotten and Max is back.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#28358: Jul 4th 2023 at 1:03:32 AM

It would probably help if they just made original female villains instead of replacement legacy characters.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28359: Jul 4th 2023 at 1:05:57 AM

Yeah, I think the most popular female Spider-Man villain is Olivia from the Spider-Verse movie.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Sircray Since: Apr, 2018
#28360: Jul 4th 2023 at 1:08:52 AM

[up][up][up] She's in Miles's comics as a member of the latest anti-vigilante gang made up of collared villains (because that always goes well) along with Scorpion, Taskmaster, and a new villainess (maybe) named Hightail.

Edited by Sircray on Jul 4th 2023 at 5:09:09 AM

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28361: Jul 4th 2023 at 1:39:11 AM

Solicitations suggest Hightail's back in future arcs. I think she's been positioned as a thief rather than a killer, so hopeful that she'll fill that not-quite Black Cat role in his rogues gallery.

I'd quite like to see Rabble face Peter as well - as an orphan with a real chip on her shoulder regarding failing her parents and Miles' "wasting" opportunities she never had for herself, putting her up against Peter - who she doesn't know and can't guilt trip - wouldn't be interesting.

Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#28362: Jul 4th 2023 at 3:18:45 AM

"That's reminds me of why i liked the Looney Tunes Show portrayal of Lola Bunny, she was allowed to be as silly as the other characters." I've seen clips of that, and yeah, Lola is a disaster and it makes her so much more fun than if she had to be the sane one.

"I don't think Spider-Man has had much problems with the Girl Boss." It has had problems with women being anti-fun and chastising Peter for his antics, though.

"It would probably help if they just made original female villains instead of replacement legacy characters." That said, Lady Stilt-Man is perfect, 10/10, no notes. One of my favourite villains ever.

Spider-Man also has White Rabbit as a villain, and I always enjoyed her, because she's another one who's silly. She's generally ineffectual, and any minor, temporary successes tend to be despite herself. It's endearing. I hear she's in the Wells run, does he let her be gleefully useless or is she now somehow hyper-competent and able to hold her own?

I also remember Robyn Hood, with a 'Y' for 'Freedom.' She was great. Spider-Man actually works really well as a straight man dealing with ridiculous people.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#28363: Jul 4th 2023 at 4:18:38 AM

I was gonna say, outside of Black Cat, who barely counts at this point, his most well known female villain is probably just White Rabbit.

Or maybe the second Electro, she has appeared in a few adaptations recently.

Edited by Joshbones on Jul 4th 2023 at 4:19:26 AM

Nofix from Over there Since: Jan, 2015
#28364: Jul 4th 2023 at 4:39:35 AM

I vaguely remember that the prototype idea for Venom was going to be a grieving mother who hated Spider-Man. Maybe we'll get that one day (since the comic industry is, if nothing else, prone to using every idea they've ever had at one point or another).

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#28365: Jul 4th 2023 at 7:31:18 AM

I think the switch of Mary Jane to a reporter is a terrible idea and Insominac's Mary Jane is one I don't consider a "real" Mary Jane.

It seems pretty bizarre to have comic book and artists look down on the value of an actress.

She's a heroic civilian no matter what.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28366: Jul 4th 2023 at 7:37:57 AM

How would you have Actress MJ interact with the same plot points then?

I'm not so happy about the whole switch to reporter since it makes her too similar to Lois Lane, but I do get why they made her a reporter to keep her close to the action.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#28367: Jul 4th 2023 at 7:44:25 AM

But, like, Spidey's non-Bugle supporting cast has been getting close to the action for years. Aunt May didn't need to be a reporter to marry doc ock, visit the same nursing home Vulture was at, or work at a charity center owned by Mr. Negative.

Edited by Joshbones on Jul 4th 2023 at 7:44:35 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28368: Jul 4th 2023 at 7:46:44 AM

Those were storylines spread out across decades TBF, and PS 4 Spidey is more tightly plotted.

Also the whole Aunt May marries Doc Ock storyline was part of attempts to try to keep Aunt May relevant and the whole thing was just super contrived to make her a part of it.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#28369: Jul 4th 2023 at 7:56:49 AM

The answer is that of course MJ would not interact with the same plot points in the same way if she was not a reporter

That’s a pretty hefty rewrite an no doubt the plot was at least partially written around reporter MJ from the start.

If actress MJ the plot would look different

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28370: Jul 4th 2023 at 7:58:43 AM

Yeah that's what I mean, like if you don't have MJ as a reporter then her role in the game would be pretty different.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#28371: Jul 4th 2023 at 8:03:28 AM

I do think that writer's really need to start look at other professions if they want the love interests to be involved in superhero stuff.The sassy reporter thing is played out

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#28372: Jul 4th 2023 at 8:09:51 AM

Edge of Spider-Verse spoiler

The Jameson Spider-Variant rejects the name Spider-Man, too 'first draft', he will be known as Headline instead.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28373: Jul 4th 2023 at 8:10:55 AM

.....Oh this is GLORIOUS!

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#28374: Jul 4th 2023 at 8:15:07 AM

Dumb name. That’s a dumb name, Jonah.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#28375: Jul 4th 2023 at 8:31:14 AM

But it's so in-character!

The Protomen enhanced my life.

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