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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28276: Jul 3rd 2023 at 4:57:33 AM

So back to my original point Norman "baby killer" Osborn deserves to die and you can never convince me otherwise.

Like Joker my only reaction to his death is FINALLY.

So The Punishing Spider GOAT.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28277: Jul 3rd 2023 at 4:58:31 AM

So back to my original point Norman "baby killer" Osborn deserves to die and you can never convince me otherwise.

I would never try to

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28278: Jul 3rd 2023 at 5:00:01 AM

Yeah the whole bit about Norman killing Mayday in 616 is just such a big elephant in the room for this whole scenario.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28280: Jul 3rd 2023 at 5:05:02 AM

No joke, but I actually suggested something like that way back. Instead of Peter being his heir, Norman raising Mayday to be the daughter he never had would be the ultimate insult to Peter.

Especially after OMD.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28281: Jul 3rd 2023 at 5:09:44 AM

In terms of plot fuel, a dead Mayday is less interesting than a live one.

So, sooner or later, the editorial climate will change and she'll be back in some form. And then someone will write her out again as a clone, LMD or imposter.

Because that's how it seems to work.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28282: Jul 3rd 2023 at 5:11:27 AM

Honestly, they could totally just have 10 year old Mayday as Peter's sidekick in the main continuity if they weren't cowards.

Then age her up in a very unpopular move and keep doubling down on it with gimmicks against fan wishes and outcry.

Just like her little sister. And Jon.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28283: Jul 3rd 2023 at 5:13:54 AM

Lol, I was actually reading stuff about that just now.

Considering that the story has always been left a bit swept under the rug (the official story seems to be that she is dead, but that doesn't explain everything and they kind of tip-toe around it) there's still room for a future writer to do something like that.

Especially if they eventually decide that they're okay with Peter having a daughter, I'd like her to be brought back because May being killed by Osborn just doesn't sit right to me. That's fucking dark and if we can't get rid of Osborn, we might as well retcon that away.

I've felt that way for a long time now, but always thought enough time was passed that it'd feel weird for MJ and Peter to just be randomly reunited with May now that she'd be a toddler or even older.

Having her raised as an enemy to Peter would be a good way to confront that, though, and would be extremely dramatic. It has a lot of storyline potential.

Obviously, though, it'd be really weird to have Osborn be involved now; especially since he's a good guy and would know to warn Peter "oh shit your baby isn't dead" "also i have been training her to kill you"

But I read an online idea I really like: giving that her kidnapper took her to Europe, have her trained in the Red Room as an assassin and become a new Black Widow.

GET IT

But no seriously that actually feels like it'd work really well

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28284: Jul 3rd 2023 at 5:29:52 AM

[up] Wouldn't they need a new color for her? They seem to be busily color-coding Widows...

Black, White and Red are all taken.

Blue? Mauve? Beige?

...nah, it'd have to be Green, wouldn't it? Because Goblins.

(The other option would have been the Black Goblin, but Aaron's just used that for his "Don't Call It Avenger-Verse" storyline, so...)

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 3rd 2023 at 1:30:19 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28285: Jul 3rd 2023 at 5:31:34 AM

A Mayday raised by Norman would def be a Green Goblin.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28286: Jul 3rd 2023 at 6:28:14 AM

In this scenario, Norman wouldn't be raising her, cause that's currently infeasible

This would be her raised in the red room

And the black widow alias would be temporary, gone when the storyline resolves

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#28287: Jul 3rd 2023 at 6:33:45 AM

Goblin Spiders are a thing, probably... Ah, they are indeed, kinda cute looking actually? (warning, spiders in link. Link is to the wiki arcticle of goblin spiders.)

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28288: Jul 3rd 2023 at 6:35:59 AM

Norman: Isn't she perfect Peter? The perfect combination of you, MJ, and me. It doesn't matter what you do to me my boy, your daughter will continue my legacy. So go on, kill a helpless father in front of his own daughter and see what happens. Goblin Spider does have a nice ring doesn't it?

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 3rd 2023 at 9:36:15 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#28289: Jul 3rd 2023 at 6:36:42 AM

Oonopis works as a codename. Kinda silly, but there's honestly sillier. tongue

Also them being small hard to notice spiders verges a bit on Black Comedy

Edited by alekos23 on Jul 3rd 2023 at 4:37:23 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#28290: Jul 3rd 2023 at 6:38:12 AM

A little late to the party on the entire thing with Norman's sins being cleansed, but I agree with everything.

He doesn't deserve this chance, which is why him getting it (and knowing he doesn't deserve it) is fascinating.

We know it's gonna be reverted, and when that time comes, nobody is gonna fight it harder than Norman himself, because he doesn't want to be that anymore, and that's gonna to be a quite the show.

Also, he did literally kill a baby. Like, yikes man.

One Strip! One Strip!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28291: Jul 3rd 2023 at 6:41:45 AM

It just feels like a lesser version of what's going on with Superman and Lex Luthor RN.

And it's far more plausible with Superman since 1, Supercorp is technically under him, and he's not working for Lex, 2, Lex is in jail RN but wants to help out thanks to some interesting character development that wasn't forced on him, and 3, Lex hasn't done as much evil to Supes as Norman did to Spider-Man.

And it better fits Superman's character to try to give Lex a chance than it does Spider-Man to Norman.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28292: Jul 3rd 2023 at 6:42:40 AM

It really says something that the Spiderverse movies barely featured Goblin, the mindless ultimate version at that, and nothing of value was lost.

As much as I love Willam Dafoe's Goblin (best version next to Spectacular) it only proves my point. Norman was best at his original story.

Billionaire turned psycho crime lord that dies at his own hands from arrogance and sheer spite.

Everything post death of Gwen Stacy is pure diminishing returns and makes me question why Peter hasn't just killed this monster yet.

Like even Ultimate Comics Peter realized "this bastard has to die" even if it kills me.

Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 3rd 2023 at 6:42:59 AM

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28293: Jul 3rd 2023 at 6:53:23 AM

Thinking about it, there is also the MCU synergy.

Film spoilers for No Way Home: Peter cured Norman in No Way Home. Despite the fact he killed May. And it seemed to stick, but the film didn't get a chance to follow the consequences to the end. So it's interesting that he's in a similar state in the comics.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 3rd 2023 at 2:53:43 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28294: Jul 3rd 2023 at 6:54:27 AM

[up][up] Ehhh, it was Miles's story, and Norman just doesn't fit in that.

Now No Way Home and others have shown why Norman Osborn is Spider-Man's greatest villain. There's always something new with him. Heck, Dan Slott used him well in Go Down Swinging.

[up] I think it was a coincidence since the Sin Eater story happened around 2020.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 3rd 2023 at 9:55:34 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#28295: Jul 3rd 2023 at 7:02:21 AM

Recent Marvel.com articles that mention Mayday often allude to the possibility she could be alive. What an unreliable narrator like Gargan tells Peter means absolutely nothing and doesn't confirm anything. Anyone can retcon Mayday being 'stillborn/murdered' at any point and people would be fine with it,

Edited by Zarius on Jul 3rd 2023 at 7:02:39 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28296: Jul 3rd 2023 at 7:05:48 AM

Yeah but considering Iconic Good Guy character Norman Osborn hasn't returned Mayday to Peter yet, she's most likely dead.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28297: Jul 3rd 2023 at 7:18:31 AM

@Mrph 1 difference Raimi!Goblin and Norman are legit two separate personalities

Comic!Norman and Spectacular!Norman are just plain bastards with the Goblin formula only enhancing their evil qualities.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#28298: Jul 3rd 2023 at 7:19:54 AM

Except Mayday can't exist because Peter and Mary Jane never married. Which is not me being puritanical but the fact that I'm confused at how they're thinking about having a child together but not shared finances or legal protection thereof.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 3rd 2023 at 7:20:05 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28299: Jul 3rd 2023 at 7:22:16 AM

I think Joe Q went with the initial explanation that because of Mephisto's deal, Mayday was never born, which the story supports, but now Marvel is teasing at the possibility that Mayday is alive. Somehow.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#28300: Jul 3rd 2023 at 7:27:11 AM

Mayday would have been better for Sins Past than the twins

A lot of a lot of the plot would have to be rejiggered but there’s no good reason to invent more children when one was already a loose end

Also if the child is directly his child and doesn’t look like Gwen Stacy maybe he won’t be tempted to have a psuedo romantic vibe with her Jesus Christ

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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