TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Spider-Man General Discussion

Go To

This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28251: Jul 3rd 2023 at 1:22:19 AM

Wait what about Peni?

She's basically a walking EVA reference so Fly Me To The Moon cover by Claire.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28252: Jul 3rd 2023 at 1:29:30 AM

Ben's 1975?

Bohemian Rhapsody.

"Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"

("I'm just a poor boy nobody loves me")

Nofix from Over there Since: Jan, 2015
#28253: Jul 3rd 2023 at 1:36:07 AM

If we're being pedantic, yes. While Ben Reilly, as a name didn't exist until 1994, he as "the Clone of Peter Parker" existed back in 1975.

Also, Bohemian Rhapsody is a great choice not just because of the lyrics, but also because both have the initials of BR. Which I feel is a very comic book-y touch.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28254: Jul 3rd 2023 at 1:37:49 AM

Speaking of Ben, has he ever confronted Green Goblin after the 90s? Like after his resurrections by the Jackal?

Only Goblin I know for sure he interacted with was Madeline.

It would be deliciously ironic to see good guy Norman vs evil Ben Reilly.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 3rd 2023 at 4:38:26 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28255: Jul 3rd 2023 at 1:37:52 AM

As for Peter...

1962 gives us The Everly Brothers' "Crying in the Rain".

"Rain drops fallin' from heaven / Could never wash away my misery / But since we're not together / I look for stormy weather"

Seems to fit his lovelife.

Edit: Felicia's not on the list, but 1979 gives us some Blondie options. "One Way or Another" gives us "One way or another, I'm going to lose ya / I'm gonna give you the slip"...

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 3rd 2023 at 9:42:57 AM

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28256: Jul 3rd 2023 at 1:44:42 AM

[up][up] Again this is why I dislike modern Spider-Man Ben Reily is forced into villainy from contrived conflict and bad writing.

While Norman literally gets all his "sins removed" and Peter is now working for the man that's done nothing but make his life a living hell.

To name a few of his heinous actions Killed Gwen Killed Ben Killed (or kidnapped) Mayday Killed Flash

All for what an everyone can be redeemed plot. Heck no some villains just can't and shouldn't be redeemed and are better off dead to end there story.

Norman is at the top of the list because he wanted to be slick and return from the dead.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28257: Jul 3rd 2023 at 1:47:32 AM

Yeah don't get me wrong, I think Norman being good is dumb as shit, but fuck it, might as well enjoy the trainwreck.

Plus it's oddly compelling at points but I have no doubt Norman will go back to being evil soon.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28258: Jul 3rd 2023 at 1:50:57 AM

[up][up] Giving the complete monster some sort of mindwipe or implanted conscience is a classic story twist, though.

Will it last forever? Almost certainly not.

But as a short to medium-term twist, it's interesting.

There's no point in punishing Norman when he's literally not that person any more. And watching him try to cling onto it and cope with who he was is, for me, more interesting than most Green Goblin stories since his resurrection have been.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 3rd 2023 at 9:51:13 AM

Nofix from Over there Since: Jan, 2015
#28259: Jul 3rd 2023 at 1:53:01 AM

Redemption must be earned. Look at all of the Avengers who used to be crooks or villains. They (by and large) didn't just get hit with a magic good guy beam and all was well, a lot of them had long and personal story arcs based on getting out of villainy, on trying to reform and be better people.

Norman didn't want that or tried to do that. He just had it handed to him because that's where the story said had to happen. It's maddening because it'll go away, eventually, without any real consequence.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28260: Jul 3rd 2023 at 1:56:21 AM

[up] Marvel had a whole Crisis Crossover built on that sort of instant personality change.

The fact it's unearned and isn't gradual feels like part of the point. Norman wouldn't be wrestling with it like this if he'd worked through it along the way - and there wouldn 't be the suspicion it'll just snap back if it had been his own work.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 3rd 2023 at 9:57:03 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28261: Jul 3rd 2023 at 1:57:28 AM

The forced conscience on Norman at least is interesting character stuff compared to Spider-Man getting cucked by a writer self insert no one likes.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Nofix from Over there Since: Jan, 2015
#28262: Jul 3rd 2023 at 2:00:09 AM

Axis was at least funny with Carnage being the world's worst hero.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28263: Jul 3rd 2023 at 2:07:37 AM

Hobgoblin as well.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28264: Jul 3rd 2023 at 2:56:07 AM

@Mrph 1 Nah " not that person" implies that Norman doesn't have any memories of what he did or is suffering from some sort of mental deterioration (dementia) that would make him unfit to stand trial or a be a minimum risk in prison.

Norman remembers everything he did including the infanticide.

So no, Norman deserves to be buried underneath the prison or dead.

Heck Norman was in jail when he was so brain damaged from the Carnage symbiote he thought he was Cletus.

Seriously comic books have to be the only medium of stories where we honestly argue a legit baby murderer shouldn't be killed because it "breaks the hero's moral code"

Like even the Naruto Fandom can agree and say "yeah Orochimaru needs to die"

Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 3rd 2023 at 2:58:05 AM

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28265: Jul 3rd 2023 at 3:06:05 AM

[up] Well, that's the joy of sf stories. Are memories and personalities the same thing?

Just because he remembers it, that doesn't mean he's the same person who did it. His personality has been rewritten by the removal of his sins. So what would be justice?

Transferred memories and rewritten personalities are common themes for Marvel.

The best stories that use them dig into exactly what that means and ask the difficult questions - e.g. one of Loki's best arcs was fuelled by this.

I hope they handle the Osborn arc as well as that one.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28266: Jul 3rd 2023 at 3:07:53 AM

Honestly, I see Gold Goblin Norman as the same guy we've always known, just with a forced conscience.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28267: Jul 3rd 2023 at 3:10:08 AM

[up] But for Norman, that's a pretty big difference, isn't it?

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28268: Jul 3rd 2023 at 3:16:13 AM

Now that is an interesting topic, how much can you force a difference on someone till they are no longer that person?

To me, that Norman remembers his past crimes and has a continuity of consciousness unlike Doc Ock post Superior, means to me, this is the same Norman as ever.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Nofix from Over there Since: Jan, 2015
#28269: Jul 3rd 2023 at 3:22:07 AM

Like even the Naruto Fandom can agree and say "yeah Orochimaru needs to die"

It helps that Naruto evolved into having a reasonable outlook on killing. Doesn't want to do it, if he can avoid it, but is fully willing to if need be. I'm not saying Peter needs to start killing people like Frank Castle, but if the only way to stop Norman's next rampage with minimal loss of life is by intentionally piloting a glider into Norman's face, well....

I'm just saying, Peter has already canonically killed two people by accident, adding Norman as a third fatality he's personally responsible for wouldn't be the worst character assassination he's faced in the last two deades.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28270: Jul 3rd 2023 at 3:49:49 AM

he also blew up a guy for the hell of it once

edit: actually, more than once. Apparently if Peter redirects someone's missiles back at them it doesn't count.

Edited by Saiga on Jul 3rd 2023 at 3:50:11 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#28271: Jul 3rd 2023 at 3:57:45 AM

Did they confirm Norman killed Mayday? Just curious how deep the hole of this run is.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28272: Jul 3rd 2023 at 4:00:31 AM

I think the closest they've done is have normal put "THE BABY" on his list of people's he's wronged (right after Peter Parker, right before Linda Reynolds and Mary Jane Watson).

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28273: Jul 3rd 2023 at 4:24:07 AM

Either he's a baby murderer or kidnapper aka offenses that would end up getting you killed in prison by the other inmates.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28274: Jul 3rd 2023 at 4:40:51 AM

Honestly, Arcade would be dead in prison IRL.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28275: Jul 3rd 2023 at 4:44:56 AM

[up][up] I think that's not actually known about by anyone except Norman and the Parkers (and Mac Gargan pre-OMD) since the official record is that May was a stillbirth and Peter probably doesn't want to expose his identity to correct that.

Just did some quick research and the official word is that Norman killed her: it's eventually revealed to Peter that May wasn't stillborn when the woman who kidnapped her returns to tell Peter "May is alive"; then Peter goes off to try and get her back from Norman.

Norman tells Peter clearly that May is dead, and while Peter doesn't believe him initially, it's then revealed that Aunt May is alive, bringing her back and setting up that completely nonsensical retcon to bring her back into things. So it seems Norman wasn't lying.

Later in Marvel Knights, Mac Gargan says to Peter that Norman killed Peter's baby, so that's confirming it.


Total posts: 38,961
Top