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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
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Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28201: Jul 1st 2023 at 2:58:51 AM

Stromm just borrowed money without permission and intended to pay back and Norman knew this.

BUT being Norman, he decided to have Stromm arrested and pretend he didn't expect Stomm to pay back. I'll get you the panel.

I think you're putting too much stock into Stromm's words.

He SAYS he was just borrowing it without permission (which is embezzlement).

Nowhere does it say that Norman saw it that way, or thought Stromm would pay him back. He only says he might have been too harsh on Stromm, but frankly, he's 100% in the right.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28202: Jul 1st 2023 at 3:27:16 AM

I think the bit about Stromm claiming he was only borrowing it also came with the implication he was going to pay back.

Could be wrong, but that’s how I read it.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 1st 2023 at 6:27:28 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28203: Jul 1st 2023 at 3:35:53 AM

Yes, but that's still Stromm's claim. There's no indication Norman agreed.

And "I didn't steal it, I just borrowed it" is a pretty common attempt to try and weasel your way out of theft. Even if Stromm was being 100% genuine, Norman did the right thing.

Don't embezzle money.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28204: Jul 1st 2023 at 3:39:49 AM

It’s a shared account so I guess Stromm assumed Norman would understand.

That said, yeah it is embezzlement.

Not like Norman needed to deal with Satan for this.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28205: Jul 1st 2023 at 4:10:17 AM

I think the account is actually Oscorp's? So, Stromm taking money out of the company for his own purposes... there's no reason to think that Norman would allow that, or assume that Stromm would pay it back. That's just a textbook crime.

I think Stromm was just thinking Norman wouldn't catch him, as these things go in reality. Maybe he planned to pay it back, maybe he didn't.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#28206: Jul 1st 2023 at 4:11:05 AM

> Not like Norman needed to deal with Satan for this.

- sad Mephisto sounds-

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28207: Jul 1st 2023 at 4:13:02 AM

The joke is Spencer’s run retconned it so Norman made a deal with Mephisto so that Stromm would do this so Norman could take control of the company.

It’s so dumb.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#28208: Jul 1st 2023 at 4:43:56 AM

Mephisto is like the 'undo' button but for spiderman writers

kind of,sorta

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#28209: Jul 1st 2023 at 4:44:28 AM

I mean, Norman's own thoughts are that he knew Stromm was doing it which is the big thing.

Also, Norman's goal was not to punish Stromm for the theft but to seize Stromm's inventions and ownership of them.

By firing him from the company and voiding his ownership, Norman gained all of the man's creations and their patents.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 1st 2023 at 4:45:01 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28210: Jul 1st 2023 at 4:45:58 AM

I don't see anywhere in Norman's thoughts that he was aware of it?

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28211: Jul 1st 2023 at 5:01:48 AM

[up][up] Interestingly enough, this actually makes Norman fit the archetype of those looter businessmen that Ayn Rand is fond of making her villains.

And this was before Steve Ditko became a hard core objectivist.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#28212: Jul 1st 2023 at 5:38:13 AM

Dikto and Lee's relationship started to break down over Norman apparently. Dikto felt it was silly that he was the Green Goblin.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Spiderman/comments/w8id4j/stan_lee_and_steve_ditko_contradictory_statements/

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28213: Jul 1st 2023 at 5:39:02 AM

No, that's a myth.

Ditko clearly planted Norman Osborn as the Green Goblin, and already showed him as a shady guy. There's all sorts of clues in the original run to foreshadow Norman Osborn being the Green Goblin.

Moreover, Peter didn't even know who Norman Osborn was at the run and they never met in the comics before the reveal.

That's all fake.

Did you forget the quote from Ditko himself that he specifically planted Norman to be there so he could be revealed as the Green Goblin?

All of that is just Romita's speculation, not actual proof. Plus, Stan Lee has admitted in other cases, he had poor memory on this subject.

IIRC I think the split was over payment.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 1st 2023 at 8:49:13 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Nofix from Over there Since: Jan, 2015
#28214: Jul 1st 2023 at 8:44:22 PM

How long do you think it'll be before we get an adaption of the Kindred Arc that takes a machete to the various plot points and makings a decent to good story out of it?

They did it with the Clone Saga (many, many times), so I imagine they'll do it with Sins Past and Kindred one day.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#28215: Jul 1st 2023 at 8:48:22 PM

I don't think the Kindred arc was bad.

I think it nicely brought back the Sin Eater, did something new with Norman Osborn, involved the Kingpin, and retconned an awful bit of continuity.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 1st 2023 at 8:48:49 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#28216: Jul 1st 2023 at 8:50:56 PM

I'm not sure a Kindred arc could work as an adaptation.

It's reliant on a story element that is only found in comic books. Adapting Kindred would require changing up the main conflict that motivates Kindred.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#28217: Jul 1st 2023 at 8:53:18 PM

They should make him Jason Todd

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28218: Jul 1st 2023 at 8:56:04 PM

To be fair we don't actually know what motivates Kindred do we?

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28219: Jul 1st 2023 at 8:56:10 PM

[up][up]Nah, make Kindred Gwen Stacy.

I'm not elaborating.

[up] Mephisto.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 2nd 2023 at 6:40:17 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28220: Jul 1st 2023 at 8:59:46 PM

Yeah but the whole thing is about Peter's sin and we don't know what it was

Like they clearly allude to OMD at first but then after the storyline pivots it's like... what...

Antiyonder (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#28221: Jul 1st 2023 at 11:54:55 PM

Just do what Linkara would tease. Make Kindred into Granny Goodness.[lol]

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28222: Jul 2nd 2023 at 1:41:43 AM

[up][up][up]Problem with the making Kindred a Jason Todd like character is Peter's "greatest failure" moment with Gwen ended much differently than with Bruce with Jason.

Norman straight up died (and should have stayed dead instead of the clone saga "Gotcha") to his own glider during his fight with Peter.

Joker went through an entire weird subplot where he became the Iran ambassador and tried to wipe out the UN before the story ended with a helicopter crash. Then everyone went to their regular lives while Jason was six feet under.

Even ignoring Sins Past (trust me I want to) There's little reason for Gwen Stacy's evil soul to come back and torment Peter because he did technically avenge her death. Norman just refuses to stay dead because editorial won't allow it.

Edited by FKJ10 on Jul 2nd 2023 at 1:42:26 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28223: Jul 2nd 2023 at 3:40:01 AM

I was kidding, it's because I hate Kindred in general that I made a dumb suggestion.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#28224: Jul 2nd 2023 at 7:18:11 AM

No i meant literally Jason Todd

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#28225: Jul 2nd 2023 at 7:44:39 AM

The thing is, a new version of the Kindred Saga would, ideally for fans, be a story that reversed both Sins Past AND One More Day, and Marvel have avoided any kind of alternate earth story that could do that.

I mean...we've never got a mini series or ongoing exploring a world where Peter didn't agree to the deal and carried on from where left off during Civil War, with him and MJ as fugitives. You're sort of left to just assume the events of One Moment In Time probably happened with the mindwipe, only Peter and MJ stayed married and raised a family.


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