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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28051: Jun 26th 2023 at 1:13:58 AM

Looking at The Other Wiki, he has co-writing credits with several other creators for RYV.

Hadn't spotted that before. But still - it would be a big risk to put him on a flagship title without history as sole writer on a successful ongoing. Marvel haven't always been that cautious, of course, but...

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#28052: Jun 26th 2023 at 1:40:54 AM

Oh god, I'm a goof, I got Stegman mixed with Ottley. My bad. It's probably because both have the first name "Ryan"

Yeah, Stegman did do RYV very briefly, perhaps he's going to be a stop gap if Wells is leaving, until they're ready for the next guy long-term? That's what happened with Ottley, just finished off the book and then they swiftly moved on to a relaunch with PKJ.

Edited by Zarius on Jun 26th 2023 at 2:51:57 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#28053: Jun 26th 2023 at 4:13:26 AM

[up] Wait, so who's promoting their story in Marvel Age #1000?

Honestly, I don't care if it's Ottley, Stegman, or even Reynolds. Any of them could run circles around Wells at this point. That's how desperate I am to be rid of Wells and Nick Lowe.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jun 26th 2023 at 7:14:07 AM

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28054: Jun 26th 2023 at 4:23:47 AM

Is there any guarantee of Lowe leaving? Wells has been a good writer on X-Books and elsewhere, and I do wonder how much of the current direction was him and how much was editorial.

If the shock death and MJ/Paul plot were editorial fiat (and I suspect the death was), any new writer is going to be working in the same restrictive space.

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#28055: Jun 26th 2023 at 4:24:13 AM

[up][up] Stegman is promoting a story with Spidey and the Lizard for Marvel Age#1000, which he's written and drawn. He said he was going to write more books in the future and more info will be revealed soon.

I made the mistake of saying Stegman had covered for Cates on Hulk, but that was actually Ryan Ottman

[up] Lowe was in charge for Spencer and Beyond where Peter and MJ were together, editorial only intervened when Spencer leaned too heavily into undoing OMD and pivoted to undoing Sins Past instead.

Wells has openly said he was looking to do a controversial run with this and would take ownership if he messed it up. He thinks MJ is Peter's endgame regardless of what he does with her and Paul.

Edited by Zarius on Jun 26th 2023 at 4:29:38 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#28056: Jun 26th 2023 at 4:37:32 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Wells says all of this was Lowe's idea a few years from now.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#28057: Jun 26th 2023 at 6:21:05 AM

Is there any guarantee of Lowe leaving? Wells has been a good writer on X-Books and elsewhere, and I do wonder how much of the current direction was him and how much was editorial.

If the shock death and MJ/Paul plot were editorial fiat (and I suspect the death was), any new writer is going to be working in the same restrictive space.

I wish there was a guarantee! So far, we only have hunches and context clues to work with. Some have noticed that apparently Lowe has been a lot quieter in social media lately. And if he was entrusted by the top brass to prepare you-know-who for you-know-what synergy via the shock death, then boy, he screwed it up so hard.

Like, it seemed that Dead Language (the Peter vs. Rabin arc) would just be on that and the Peter/MJ elephant in the room and the shock death would (literally) be a different story. But it's likely that Lowe sprung the shock death on Wells like halfway through the planning on Dead Language. So instead of a proper explanation of the Peter/MJ elephant in the room, our attention is forced on a completely different elephant who's juggling chainsaws.

And suffice to say, it didn't seem to occur to anyone just how gross and misogynistic the shock death is.

Of course, reigns can only last for so long. And if it took years before Dan DiDio finally got the boot because he wouldn't stop micromanaging, then hopefully the same can be said for Lowe if we keep getting news about unsold copies of this ASM run just shelfwarming at LCS.

Wells has openly said he was looking to do a controversial run with this and would take ownership if he messed it up. He thinks MJ is Peter's endgame regardless of what he does with her and Paul.

Well, that monkey's paw sure had plans for him, because this is probably going to go down as the worst Spider-Man story since OMD.

And if he really does believe MJ is the endgame, he hasn't really made it apparent so far.

I wouldn't be surprised if Wells says all of this was Lowe's idea a few years from now.

Actually, me neither. Apparently there's a video that seems to say that the editorial is the true villain in Spider-Man's life, no matter who's the designated writer. And as Mrph1 mentioned, Wells's run on Hellions and Ant-Man are particularly great, so it makes Wells's run on ASM all the more baffling. There's clearly something going on that we don't know about completely.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#28058: Jun 26th 2023 at 6:41:25 AM

[up] I watched this video this morning, lol

It's just one fan/reviewer's opinion and honestly I think they give the writers too much slack (a lot of these stories are just not good, in ways that I don't think are specifically executive meddling)

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#28059: Jun 26th 2023 at 8:38:17 AM

[up][up] Wells says MJ is Peter's endgame, but he also said them being together is the 'end of Peter's story' and he'd rather just play will they/won't they.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#28060: Jun 26th 2023 at 8:42:04 AM

Weird. Other writers kept writing spider man after he married MJ

I guess other writers have more imagination, even the ones who didn’t like the wedding and still wrote it

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28061: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:15:30 AM

Man, it's like Peter marrying MJ actually opens up some writing opportunities.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#28062: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:29:54 AM

Pretty much every story direction opens and closes opportunities. The question is whether those opportunities are worth it.

The only opportunity a single, unmarried Peter has is dating multiple women which fans aren't all that interested in and doesn't really provide the best stories.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28063: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:31:42 AM

Doesn't help that besides MJ and Black Cat, none of the love interests introduced in BND were any good.

Do Carlie Cooper or Michelle Landlady have any fans?

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 27th 2023 at 12:31:51 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28064: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:37:57 AM

Kraven Past Hunt happened while Peter was a married man.

In fact it was because Peter was married did the writer J.M. De Matteis decide to make it a Spider-Man story as Peter would have a hell of alot left to live for after being buried alive.

Until a post OMD story can give me that level of storytelling I will call BS on Peter marrying MJ is the end of Spider-Man.

Edited by FKJ10 on Jun 26th 2023 at 9:38:09 AM

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28065: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:39:47 AM

The only one of Peter's new love interests that have any fans was Silk and that was after Dan Slott stopped writing her and the pheromone induced cheek clapping.

I honestly found it funny ngl.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28066: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:40:20 AM

[up][up][up][up] Fans have only really been invested in a handful of Peter's romances. When was the last time a new love interest really caught anyone's attention in a good way?

(Ultimate Peter and Kitty, maybe?)

There's Gwen (RIP), MJ, Felicia and anyone else is just received as a Replacement Scrappy, including characters like Cindy/Silk.

I mean, there might be other superhuman/costumed Marvel characters Peter could date (maybe Nightcrawler could introduce him to Weaponless Zsen from Legion of X? grin).

But I don't think any new civilian/normal love interest is going to win over the crowd. And anyone who's not civilian/normal moves Peter's life further away from 'classic' Spider-Man premise.

(You could probably set up another Dating Catwoman thing, but we already have Felicia, so what does that add? Or there might be scope for a doomed fling with an immortal, maybe? But not as a long term thing)

And we've got so much history with both MJ and Felicia that it's not "will they or won't they". They already have. And haven't. And then have again. Lots of going in circles.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 26th 2023 at 5:40:58 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28067: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:40:53 AM

Silk only started having fans after she stopped being a love interest, being written by Slott and became her own character.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#28068: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:41:24 AM

Also, it's pretty easy to ignore the marriage if you don't like it.

From what I've heard, Mark Waid isn't a fan of Superman being married, and World's Finest both takes place in the past and doesn't have Lois in it at all.

It's pretty easy to work around.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#28069: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:41:50 AM

I remember Peter/Carol had a decent following some years back. Dunno why.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28070: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:42:50 AM

I think it was because they went on a date once.

Maybe around the time Dark Reign ended.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#28071: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:43:05 AM

[up][up] I just don't see the chemistry. Was it ever an actual thing, or just shipping?

[up][nja]

Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 26th 2023 at 5:43:24 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#28072: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:44:45 AM

Yeah all I remember is that they went for coffee.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#28073: Jun 26th 2023 at 10:00:01 AM

Really for Peter and love interest its only these 3

Gwen Stacy: The tragic one that got away especially after TASM movies. Considered generally "sacred" and don't remind fans about Sins Past. Her legacy still has fans on the fence about Miles and her Earth 65 self not helped by marketing dressing up 616!Gwen as Spider-Gwen.

Felicia: Generally considered the fun alternative to MJ. Ironic considering MJ was the fun alternative to Gwen. As of late people have been pushing Felicia as a serious love interest when in earlier comics only cared about Spider-Man not Peter.

MJ: The classic thanks to the Raimi movies, 90s TAS and decades of happy marriage in the comics that marvel editorial wants you to forget. Fans and every other piece of Spider-Man media but the main comics will have these two together to the constant frustration of fans.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#28074: Jun 26th 2023 at 10:11:07 AM

Do Carlie Cooper or Michelle Landlady have any fans?

Like with Silk, Carlie only started being like or at least tolerated by fans long after she was no longer a love interest and got better writing.

There's also the irony that her most popular ship is with Felicia whom she was initially supposed to replace as Peter's primary superhuman love interest.

Dracoblade Since: May, 2009
#28075: Jun 26th 2023 at 11:10:02 AM

Honestly, re-reading BND, the writers did do their best to make Carlie likable. She's introduced way in the beginning, but doesn't become Peter's love interest until much later, after her own unique relationship to the cast is set up, like her best friend is secretly resentful of her, and is also a super-villian.

She also has a professional relationship with Spidey as a police examiner — incidentally addressing a common complaint with MJ, that a super-model job doesn't lend itself to generating stories for our main character like Lois' reporter job. She and Peter like each other well enough, but something comes up before they really get to talk. And when they finally do, then they click.

Honestly, I feel a lot of the grievances against Carlie was that she wasn't Mary-Jane Watson, and a very loud part of the fanbase refuses to even consider anything else.


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