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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#27501: Jun 4th 2023 at 8:48:08 PM

Shame, he could have been great Arch-Enemy material.

Gwen needs more things unique to her and her universe.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#27502: Jun 4th 2023 at 9:04:02 PM

Gwen has been languishing ever since the series that attempted to move her to 616 failed

Which was a terrible idea to begin with but damn they really aren't trying with her now

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#27503: Jun 4th 2023 at 9:24:23 PM

The Storms could have been good villains if Gwen had been allowed to beat them on panel.

Still annoyed at that.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#27504: Jun 4th 2023 at 9:33:45 PM

I'm sad she's back in her verse.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#27505: Jun 4th 2023 at 9:36:57 PM

I admit while the recent doppelganger stories haven't interested me much, I at least appreciate that Gwen is finally back in her own universe. The whole "going to college in 616" is such a dumb and creatively bankrupt decision.

Now all we need is to fully build her back up with a full ongoing like Miles has.

[up][up] Yeah its way messed up how that was resolved offscreen. It basically means the Storm's were nothing more than plot devices just to kick Gwen out of her own universe.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 4th 2023 at 9:38:10 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#27506: Jun 4th 2023 at 9:41:39 PM

Hard disagree, she'll never be a major character with no ability to do crossovers sadly.

Miles' best decision was getting out of the Ultimates.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#27507: Jun 4th 2023 at 9:47:00 PM

I mean are crossovers really that important?

And its not like crossovers were impossible before anyway. The original Spider-Gwen series featured a 3-way crossover event with Spider-Woman and Silk because when Gwen was doing stuff in her own universe.

Her living in 616 isn't necessary for anything. And she was already a major character anyway, saying living in 616 is the only avenue for popularity is nonsensical.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 4th 2023 at 9:52:18 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#27508: Jun 4th 2023 at 9:50:36 PM

Much as I would like to see Spider-Gwen in the main universe, I kinda agree.

If we stick her in 616, what is there for her?

Maybe if she'd originated in 616 (like, there's still a maybe kinda clone of Gwen out there somewhere isn't there), that could have worked, but they deliberately put her in a different universe, so no dice there. They should stick with that.

One Strip! One Strip!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#27509: Jun 4th 2023 at 10:17:14 PM

Well, off the top of my head:

  • No involvement in crossovers.
  • Very few guest appearances in other books
  • Very few team ups.
  • Less chance of appearing in movies unless a miracle like S Pider-Verse happens

Mind you, my primary issue is that the more exposure Spider-gwen gets, the less "The most important fact about Gwen Stacy is she died" will be true.

In her own universe, we rarely would get, say a Ghost Spider/Kamala Khan team up which I'd have loved to have seen.

I wanted to see how Jessica Jones might react to her ex-classmate being alive.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#27510: Jun 4th 2023 at 10:20:35 PM

Her crossovers while she was in the 616 amounted to getting caught up in Peter's drama. None of the stories I can think of were about her or uniquely requiring her. Gabriel or Sarah Kindred claiming that Gwen was an essential part of the Spider-Family that is definitely something that Peter has was just laughable.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#27511: Jun 4th 2023 at 10:32:31 PM

Shame, he could have been great Arch-Enemy material.

Arguably he is, since he was Gwen's most frequent foe.

I admit while the recent doppelganger stories haven't interested me much, I at least appreciate that Gwen is finally back in her own universe.

I actually thought Gwenverse was good and the writer was clearly familiar with Gwen's earth, which i appreciated.

Shadow Clones is the one i'm not feeling.

Edited by Cortez on Jun 4th 2023 at 1:35:16 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#27512: Jun 4th 2023 at 10:33:16 PM

[up][up][up] So your entire reasoning is just to have her guest-star with other characters?

I mean sure teaming Kamala isn't a bad guy but I'd be hard pressed to call it a "necessary one".

Meaningless crossovers isn't really something I find that interesting.

[up] It's nice that Gwenverse is good. At least it didn't have a major controversy like Milesverse did.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 4th 2023 at 10:44:47 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#27513: Jun 4th 2023 at 10:36:49 PM

Yeah its way messed up how that was resolved offscreen.

Was resolved off panel? I thought the last two writers just ignored it.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#27514: Jun 4th 2023 at 10:49:36 PM

Meaningless crossovers isn't really something I find that interesting.

I'm speaking from the Doyle-ist, "How do we make Gwen the most popular and long lasting character she can be that keeps getting her own series and places in other books."

If you want the artist argument, "Gwen's story mostly finished when she had her secret identity revealed, served meaningless time, and got out of prison." You can unring that bell but most of the original character premise was smashed to pieces.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#27515: Jun 5th 2023 at 1:47:41 AM

Well they tried that, it just didn't pan out

From the looks of it the whole Spider-Gwen as a 616 hero initiative wound up being a failure and provided her with none of the boost you say it could have given her

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#27516: Jun 5th 2023 at 1:50:07 AM

She REALLY needed her own mythology and stories unique to her.

Like Miles has that. He's got stuff like the Prowler being his uncle and stuff with the Champions.

Spider-Gwen just leaned too much on the multiverse gimmick.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#27517: Jun 5th 2023 at 1:55:52 AM

Spider-Gwen's whole life is in her world, though. I don't have a problem with most of her adventures being in Earth-65 as well.

Pulling her further into 616 loses her family and supporting cast. And whereas Miles could bring them all across via Cosmic Retcon, the fact she's a Gwen means there's limited scope for that without undermining 616 Gwen's history.

I'm enjoying Shadow-Clones so far, and at least the big villain seems to be unique to Gwen, not just an Earth-65 revamp of an existing Earth-616 villain.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#27518: Jun 5th 2023 at 2:03:26 AM

The other issue is that we already have 3 Spider-Women living on Earth 616

Jessica Drew, Silk, and Anya Corazon. Gwen is more or less redundant and since she's not native to 616 that means she has no family or anything that's hers.

Like plenty of people already think Miles can't fully thrive in a world with Peter around, Gwen has that even worse on 616.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#27519: Jun 5th 2023 at 2:31:59 AM

[up] On one level, the things that make her work as a character shouldn't just be her powers. Luke Cage is just one of many super-strong, super-tough guys, for example.

...but Gwen's powers are more distinctive and the Spider-mythos keeps pulling her back in.

Spider-Women did some fun stuff with Silk in Earth-65, a world where her missing family weren't missing. Haunting the life she never had.

You could, theoretically, do something like that with Gwen in 616. Play up the fact she doesn't exist there and contrast people with her own people world's version. Or relocate her to 616 Chicago, Paris or anywhere else that gives her some distance from the other spiders and lets her build her own supporting cast, which emphasising that she only has half a life there.

(Given that she now has a clone on Krakoa, you could even lean into the "so many Gwens" thing and have them end up as friends / pseudo-siblings).

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#27520: Jun 5th 2023 at 2:33:19 AM

Remind me again, why is there a Gwen clone in the X-Men corner of the Marvel verse?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#27521: Jun 5th 2023 at 2:40:21 AM

I think it's Gwen Poole, she did a story a while back that centered on her believing if she becomes a Mutant then that will ensure her longevity and survival

So after some stuff she successfully retconned herself (Gwen Poole is a very meta character) into being a Mutant and she can now live on Krakoa

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 5th 2023 at 3:10:08 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#27522: Jun 5th 2023 at 3:02:45 AM

Actually, I wasn't thinking of Gwen Poole.

There's also the "Gwen Warren" clone - a Gwen who can shapeshift into a giant spider with Cyclops-style eye beams. She got away from the Jackal years ago, but was also abandoned by the mutants, so went off and built a normal life. She got dragged back into things by the "X-Men Green" arc of X-Men Unlimited, and ended up helping Krakoa take down the increasingly murderous Nature Girl. Magik apologised for the X-Men abandoning her before and promised that this time she'd personally ensure Gwen was supported.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#27523: Jun 5th 2023 at 3:27:55 AM

Man, what's up with the cloning fetish Marvel has for Gwen?

Like we don't see this many clones of MJ.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#27524: Jun 5th 2023 at 3:34:40 AM

Yeah the lady doctor's motive is absurdly petty but fuck it, at least it's a unique villain to her rogues gallery.

...Wait, besides the Bodega bandit, Earth-65 Vulture, EVIL Matt Murdock, and science lady, who else does Spider-Gwen have has villains unique to her?

EDIT: Gah, this one came out late because of weird wifi issues.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 5th 2023 at 6:35:08 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#27525: Jun 5th 2023 at 4:46:29 AM

[up] Gwen's first issue battle with the 616 villains left the villain's husband dead and the scientist herself as a maimed cyborg (Dark Lord on Life Support), so misdirected - but arguably not that petty.

There's also the Earth-65 "Bond villain" version of Cindy/Silk, who might be worth a reappearance.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 5th 2023 at 12:46:46 PM


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