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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#26876: May 18th 2023 at 4:49:01 AM

Was as the current run is continuing Slott's trend of "Everybody Hates Spidey"

Really you can tell how good a run is by how the other heroes treat Spidey.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#26877: May 18th 2023 at 5:06:20 AM

"Hero with bad publicity" has very much been Spider-Man's brand since the start, though. Being too friendly with all the heroes with much better publicity doesn't help to establish that.

And as he'a an extremely competent solo hero, that means Marvel keeps reaching for justifications to use it despite all the good stuff Peter's done.

"He's a loose cannon" seems to be the favourite.

Maybe it's time Spidey moved past that phase - but last time that led to his time in the Avengers, the Civil War mess and One More Day,

I mean, why wouldn't you ask Peter to join a big superhero team if this wasn't an issue? And why would he say no?

Edited by Mrph1 on May 18th 2023 at 1:06:43 PM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26878: May 18th 2023 at 5:16:16 AM

The thing is... he was also in the Avengers after One More Day as well. It took until Superior to get him removed from there, and it frankly doesn't make much sense to keep him out of it now.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#26879: May 18th 2023 at 5:36:19 AM

[up][up] My ideal interpretation of Hero with Bad Publicity!Spidey would be more in line with his interpretation in EMH or the PS4 game by Insomniac, where the bad publicity angle is one-sided to loudmouths like J. Jonah Jameson and actual people like civilians or firefighters actually think the world of him. And like EMH, Spidey is highly regarded with other superheroes, like Captain America:

"I talked to the police, the firemen, the people that you helped and I heard their stories about how you saved lives, how you never asked for recognition, or reward or even thanks. It doesn't matter what the newspapers say or the politicians or the whole world. They don't define who you are, you do. And not by your words, but, by your actions. The truth will come out. But until then, I'm going to keep fighting just like you do."

Why the Spider-Office can't take the freaking hint is beyond me, really.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on May 18th 2023 at 8:36:32 AM

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#26880: May 18th 2023 at 6:03:59 AM

Frankly editorial needs Peter to be a loser, Zeb Wells' run has just taken it to the extreme where:

All the heroes hate him (For let's face it a misdemeanor offenses when you got Reed "I shot Hulk into space" Richards)

MJ left him for another man (Even Yamcha felt that L)

He's begging Norman for help to defeat "The Vulture" when he's been able to beat Wolverine.

And as of late responsible for the death of Ms. Marvel because he couldn't beat up some forgettable wannabe Mayan God

On my mama Spidey has been sorry.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#26882: May 18th 2023 at 7:14:03 AM

When comic book publishers run stories they know are going to piss the fans off, it really puts the editor & writer in an *awesome* position… There are several scenarios that happen: a) the bosses force the editor/writer to make an unpopular “shock” comic. b) the editor “goes rogue” and makes the unpopular decision mostly him/self (which may end up in a firing). C) the writer is sacrificed by both editor & publisher

When I wrote PunisherMAX, the editor (Axel Alonso) basically caught the early reaction and gave me a “pep talk” the morning before the book was released advising me to lay low & (literally said this) “good luck!”

Now: the plot of my PunisherMAX was *dictated* to me by my editor. But I was the one who got the s**t for it, and NOBODY from Marvel backed me up. Everybody (publishers, editors) wanted me to write “feminist” stories & characters. And all I wanted to do was write Wolverine or Joker or whatever the f**k. So I felt like I was being placed in the public arena like a “sacrifice” just for the controversy. And that sucked.

Early in my comic writing career with Marvel I was also encouraged by several people in the industry to “come out” as a lesbian (even though I wasn’t a lesbian) to increase sales. I was advised by a person in Marvel to pitch Cloak & Dagger as an LGBTQ story (which I did).

Nick Lowe was one of my editors, too

So...exactly what's the takeaway here?

Because all I can think about is my faith in humanity flatlining because editors are forcing feminist stories and queer reveals on someone when she clearly wasn't interested in the former and was clearly not the latter.

Is this the part of the scandal where people start speaking up about how Nick Lowe and editors in general stink?

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on May 18th 2023 at 10:46:18 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#26883: May 18th 2023 at 7:32:21 AM

From context “feminist” seems to mean “lady wants to get murder fucked by the Punisher”

Well worth the scare quotes if so

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#26884: May 18th 2023 at 7:34:01 AM

WTF?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#26885: May 18th 2023 at 7:37:50 AM

I was confused about the idea that something like Punisher Max could be too feminist. Didn’t seem on brand for what I knew of the Max serieses.

But that seems to be the example given of “feminist” plots forced by the editor

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#26886: May 18th 2023 at 7:45:22 AM

I have no fucking clue what could be particularly feminist in Punisher Max of all things

I guess one of the action girl supporting characters Frank sometimes works with?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#26887: May 18th 2023 at 7:55:12 AM

Another testimonial here (related to Spider-Man) is that Spike Valentine had an original Spider-Verse pitch AND a Ghost Rider/Puisher pitch of his own thrown out and he was told to add Mexican clichés to a story because of where he came from.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#26888: May 18th 2023 at 7:55:19 AM

[up][up] Reading further context in tweet chains, there’s apparently a Punisher Max story that has almost no Punisher showing up. Because it’s about this assassin lady who is obsessed with him.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/d93b5aa7_e821_47fa_97d2_1b48529b7104.jpeg

This plot was forced on Valeria D’Orazio by her editor Alex Alonso on the insistence that it was feminist and progressive. And when Valeria got criticism because it very wasn’t, Marvel didn’t stand up for her.

Edited by Bocaj on May 18th 2023 at 10:55:47 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26889: May 18th 2023 at 8:22:34 AM

[up][up] Yeeahhh, I don't trust anything Spike Valentine says.

Guy has been butthurt about his comic carreer never really launching and has gone full comicsgate. Definitely it wouldn't be the first time he has lied about Marvel to make them look bad.

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#26890: May 18th 2023 at 9:17:47 AM

Honestly not surprising grossly out of touch editorial chasing headlines by stirring up controversy to piss off fans or praise by making "progressive" stories.

While leaving writers and artists out to dry when it blows up in their faces.

Comics book editorial has always been like wrestling booking. They'll strap a talent with a shit story/angle and expect them to shine the turd. When fans say it stinks they leave hang the talent out to dry and move onto the next one.

Synchronicity MOD (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#26891: May 18th 2023 at 9:41:12 AM

Please keep this thread about Spider-Man and direct all general Marvel editorial comments to the appropriate thread.

reppuzan Since: Dec, 2014
#26892: May 18th 2023 at 9:53:42 AM

I also want to point out that Peter has not beaten a single supervillain on his own this entire run of Amazing Spider-Man. He's always bailed out by someone else.

There's making your hero struggle and there's making your hero incompetent. Wells is doing the latter.

Edited by reppuzan on May 18th 2023 at 9:56:29 AM

FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#26893: May 18th 2023 at 9:59:26 AM

Well given Spider-Man's track record with editors changing the story because it will make fans go crazy

Gwen Stacy's death: It was originally supposed to be Aunt May but Gwen being the love interest had more "kick" so she got fridged

Sins Past: Kids were supposed to be Peter's but Joe "Peter can't grow up Quesada" vetoed against it and decided it be Norman "because the fans would freak out"

Ultimate Spidey and Logan swapping bodies leading to Pedo Logan trying bang underaged MJ: Nick Lowe thought it was funny to Bendis' ire that he had the artist draw him strangling Lowe for forcing the cringe story

OMD: What can I even say that hasn't been said

Zeb Wells entire run: Literally a contest of "how much can we piss off Spider-Man fans this issue" that now it's bled over into pissing off Ms. Marvel fans

Editors are trolls.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#26894: May 18th 2023 at 10:03:31 AM

I owe Bendis half an apology

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#26895: May 18th 2023 at 10:51:09 AM

I miss Ultimate Peter.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#26896: May 18th 2023 at 10:57:27 AM

Zeb Wells and Nick Lowe Spider-Man is what you get when you got two trolls at the helm

Hell I'm 99% sure Paul is Wells' weird self insert.

Man has no personality beyond better than Peter

Literally showed up from nowhere in an alternate dimension where he was the last man alive.

He's worse than Carli Cooper.

Edited by FKJ10 on May 18th 2023 at 10:59:46 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#26897: May 18th 2023 at 10:59:08 AM

Personally, I'd like to give those two some benefit of the doubt and suggest maybe they just had this idea of a run for Spidey that didn't pan out well.

I don't think they are actively malicious at least.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FKJ10 Since: Mar, 2012
#26898: May 18th 2023 at 11:18:23 AM

See I'd give the benefit of the doubt.....if not for the fact Wells and Lowe have been on the same page since day 1

Peter's excessive suffering her is by design per Wells' interview

There's nothing stopping Lowe from doing what he wants as he's the executive editor at Marvel Comics.

Hell the latest interview about Issue 26 Kamala's pointless death shows they both know they're writing is just gonna piss off the Spider-Man fans and are doing it anyway.

They aren't ignorant about anything and they're ieas are panning out as planned.

If anything they only got cold feet on MJ's kids being adopted instead of her and Paul actually banging in the alt dimension.

So I will call a spade a spade they are trolls generating hate views on this Spider-Man run.

Edited by FKJ10 on May 18th 2023 at 11:18:59 AM

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#26899: May 18th 2023 at 11:21:32 AM

RB Sylva put out something on her instagram revealing what appears to be Kamala, alive and talking to Scott Summers

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#26900: May 18th 2023 at 11:22:56 AM

Paul is not anyone's self-insert, he's just another one in a long line of the "not Peter" flings MJ has had since One More Day.

The difference is that this time they're pretending this could be long term, but Paul is dying the second Wells leaves the book. He's this generation's Terry Long.


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