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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#26726: May 7th 2023 at 8:43:08 AM

I'm honestly kind of surprised Tigra's son with the Skrull hasn't been killed or forgotten.

Tigra being a c-lister probably helps. Most people don't pay much attention to her, so there's no real reason to kill off her son.

What about Damian? He's still around.

Damian is a Grant Morrison creation and was part of a very popular Batman run. A lot of superhero kids tend to be introduced in less memorable or more contentious arcs. Marvel can pretty much hide behind the excuse that baby May was created during the Clone Saga and that by killing her, they're washing their hands off that infamous storyline.

The funny thing about Aquaman's baby dying is that Peter David later introduced Koryak who was much older than Aquaman's previous kid. If anything, DC never really cared about their characters being seen as younger and hipper up until the New 52. It helps that everyone more or less sees the Big 7 as old anyway. The issue with Spider-Man aging is that he is known as a teenager or young adult, so it's much harder to imagine him older than that. Hell, just having him act older and more mature can be contentious. I know one guy who hates the JMS run because he felt Peter and MJ were written as older than they ought to be.

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#26727: May 7th 2023 at 9:29:14 AM

[up] Peter and MJ were written older and more mature by other writers besides JMS in the 90s, the "we're too young for this" rhetoric only started bleeding in from Howard Mackie and it was incredibly unpopular

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#26728: May 7th 2023 at 11:21:13 AM

Got an answer back on that other site already. No, there actually is no official scale for the floating timeline, but 4 to 1 seems about right. The person who responded (one of the Official Handbook writers) also expressed apparent irritation with that fact that Spider-Man seemingly ages slower than everybody else. [lol]

Edited by HamburgerTime on May 7th 2023 at 1:21:27 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#26729: May 7th 2023 at 11:47:24 AM

Someone mentioned the Aquaman case and that’s a pretty old example, occurring in the 70’s. And Aquababy wasn’t killed off because he made Arthur look old, they did so because they were thinking of what would be a major story for Aquaman to go through.

It’s notable because it lead to long-term effects for the characters. Largely Arthur’s relationships with Mera and Garth became permanently fractured, and even years later it never quite healed. So it lead to a fairly permanent change for Aquaman’s status quo.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#26730: May 7th 2023 at 2:30:06 PM

for her it's been five years

Actually, a leaked page I found on Twitter says "almost four years." But I guess that's besides the point.

And speaking of said point, it might not be cool to leak stuff most of the time, but holy mother of god, thank these leakers for ripping out the bandaid and revealing that the kids aren't MJ's or Paul's, because this run has to be borderline the worst ASM run by far.

Actually, wait.

What was stopping MJ from, I dunno, telling Peter outright that the kids are adopted? Yeah, storytelling-wise, the book needed a Sword of Damocles, but they couldn't have drama while also revealing right off the bat that the kids are adopted? Because this is easily the cheapest kind of drama.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#26731: May 7th 2023 at 4:49:09 PM

What do you consider the worst ASM run?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26732: May 7th 2023 at 4:56:55 PM

In 2014, in the first issue of the ASM re-launch after Superior, Peter is 28 years old. There's a few other references in Slott's run that reinforce this.

This is a bit tight, but not that bad as far as comic book time goes. With the comics having settled on fifteen years old as when Peter was bit, that makes it 13 years from AMS 1 in 1963 to (lol) AMS 1 in 2014. 51 years of real time.

People used to say Marvel's sliding time-scale worked with a 3-to-1 rule, meaning for every 3 real world years, 1 year passes in-universe. More recently, however, I've seen fans move to a 4-to-1 rule, and that lines up quite well with Slott's run - 51 years becomes 12.75 marvel years. If you instead count from Spider-man's debut in Amazing Fantasy 15, 1962, that becomes 13 years exactly (not factoring in which months these were published in).

But after Slott's run - I think in Spencer's - Peter is now in his mid twenties. Considering we're almost 10 years after that point, so Peter should be at least 30 even with a 4-to-1 rule, that's pretty excessive to me.

With the 4-to-1 rule, Normie Osborne would be just under 10, having debuted 38 years ago.

[up] That's a hard call considering Slott has had multiple.tongue

But seriously, I have a feeling i'll have my answer when I get to the pre-Clone Saga nineties. I haven't actually read this part yet, but it seems pretty garbo from the excerpts I've seen.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#26733: May 7th 2023 at 4:57:15 PM

Never read it myself but I've heard Howard Mackie's was pretty hideous. Was that the one with "the Gathering of Five" and all that?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26734: May 7th 2023 at 5:08:13 PM

Mackie's ASM run starts after the Gathering of the Five, though he was writing Peter Parker Spider-man before it and was still involved in that crossover.

Mackie's run introduces Mattie Franklin (who gained her powers from the Gathering) and was the first relaunch/renumbering of the ASM book. The storylines focused on Mattie Franklin, Senator Ward, Peter's return to being Spider-man, and MJ's fake death and survival.

It's a pretty short run, and I've only read the start of it - I actually had some of these issues as a kid, when it was new, and honestly I didn't dislike what I've read of it. The mystery of the new Spider-man was so cool to me as a kid.

edit: The fact that Mackie and Byrne were doing PPSM right before moving onto ASM and the huge number of crossovers between all the Spider-man titles (and creative teams) during the nineties probably meant that the tone of the book probably didn't change much even as it was relaunched under Mackie. He had already been involved in the storylines prior to that.

Edited by Saiga on May 7th 2023 at 5:09:58 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#26735: May 7th 2023 at 10:48:27 PM

Everytime they add magical shit to Spider-Man, it just doesn't work.

Norman Osborn playing Magic the Gathering will never stop being such a dumbass idea.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#26736: May 7th 2023 at 11:49:13 PM

More pages have leaked from ASM#25

There is a montage of MJ and Paul connecting with the kids. Turns out the girl, Romie, has a middle name, Stephanie, explaining why she had two different names that one time. Paul and MJ grow closer, but there are scenes that imply they can't have sex and that Paul may indeed be castrated. Paul also developed MJ's watch with the luck powers. Paul jokes that he hit the jackpot, and MJ says she's not so sure about it.

Edited by Zarius on May 8th 2023 at 12:01:31 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#26737: May 8th 2023 at 12:17:27 AM

WTF!?

This run is more morbidly hilarious the more I hear.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 9th 2023 at 3:19:35 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#26738: May 8th 2023 at 3:19:37 AM

[up] While the scene that implies that theory is open to all sorts of interpretation, I could also see it being a case for Revealing Paul is gay or something, which might be clearer in issue 26

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#26739: May 8th 2023 at 3:30:07 AM

... So I looked at Wells' wikipedia page and it says he used to work on Robot Chicken.

I think that says it all.tongue

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#26740: May 8th 2023 at 3:30:29 AM

[up][up][up][up]

So, this is a case of finally filling in the blanks and also course-correcting like there's no tomorrow because the OC didn't win anyone over after all? GOOD. (Though I concede the castration, if that's what it is, might be excessive. But wait, Paul has the luck powers too? UGGGHHHH!)

[up][up] Paul might be gay? That might be more humane than the castration bit.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on May 8th 2023 at 6:31:58 AM

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#26741: May 8th 2023 at 3:42:17 AM

[up] Yeah, I only bring up the Castration thing due to a line or two from ASM#22 from Paul in regards to something. I'll need to dig that issue up to be certain.

Edited by Zarius on May 8th 2023 at 6:07:32 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#26742: May 8th 2023 at 6:50:09 AM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#26743: May 8th 2023 at 8:40:45 AM

Eh, I feel like we really should avoid using the movies to make jabs at editorial. At the end of the day, these guys are just doing their jobs, as unsatisfactory as we may find it.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#26744: May 8th 2023 at 10:04:12 AM

...

Yeah. And I kinda got thumped, so all the more reason to stick with your idea.

It just stinks that this ASM run is particularly bad. And it's worse because Spider-Man is written completely different in literally everyone else's books.

It's just a bummer. sad

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#26745: May 8th 2023 at 11:16:12 AM

[up] Slott even outright IGNORES Felicia in his book, and when he used her Spider-Verse counterpart, the only thing Peter will say to her is how 'disappointed' he is that she's a thief.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#26746: May 8th 2023 at 1:59:11 PM

[up]

He hoped having spider-powers would have made her more heroic?

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#26747: May 8th 2023 at 9:29:39 PM

Further Amazing Spider-Man#25 spoilers

I honestly think MJ's reasons For sticking with Paul and the family could have worked just as well without the added caveat of "I will force you to accept your chains"...for one, the implication of this isn't good...are we to presume MJ, without this spell, WOULDN'T have looked after the family and abandon Paul for Peter?

Worse, judging from the emotional reading of the scenes and everything we've had to read leading up to it over a year, it's looking clearer to me that Mary Jane is only staying with Paul out of pity and her concerns are more for how leaving him would affect her family...she and Peter are in the hospital while Paul is being treated for his wounds...MJ is not suddenly going to be the first person Paul sees when he wakes up that tells him to his face she's going back to Peter right away. No woman, (brainwashed or not in MJ's case), would do that, even if her older romantic feelings are resurfacing, she has her responsibilities for the present

So you remember that scene last year where Paul punched Peter in front of MJ? Well that's been retconned...it's now suddenly Peter punching Paul, and it's left for you o wonder if it's a fantasy he's having as he journeys to walk, or a flash forward. I assume the sequence where Paul punched Peter was a flashback or Paul fantasizing since Peter is now there to 'complicate' his relationship with MJ...maybe Paul really is a controlling influence on MJ after all?

We know the origin of the watch now, and wow... They're not exactly subtle with all the Jackpot teases, MJ and Paul mention Jackpot every five minutes to the point the catchphrase loses all meaning. Paul also knows about the "three skulls" and their potentially fatal consequences, which begs the question why he built that into the watch in the first place

There is Nothing explicitly romantic shown between MJ and Paul whatsoever, just strongly implied, but can be interpreted as a deep friendship

Bonus story is for Peter/Felicia fans Peter and Felicia go to a friend's wedding and Peter gets involved in a caper when their gift is stolen, afterwards Felicia turns down Peter's offer of a dance but agrees to 'extreme stargazing' instead

Edited by Zarius on May 9th 2023 at 7:50:24 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#26748: May 9th 2023 at 3:30:04 PM

So you remember that scene last year where Paul punched Peter in front of MJ? Well that's been retconned...it's now suddenly Peter punching Paul, and it's left for you [t]o wonder if it's a fantasy he's having as he journeys to walk, or a flash forward. I assume the sequence where Paul punched Peter was a flashback or Paul fantasizing since Peter is now there to 'complicate' his relationship with MJ...maybe Paul really is a controlling influence on MJ after all?

...Wait, what? From the look of things, I was ready to believe Paul beating up Peter was the former lashing out and going "You IDIOT! How dare you save us?! Now the Emissary won't have trouble finding us WHEHABDHWDBEWU!" And now it isn't that? What gives, Wells?

We know the origin of the watch now, and wow...They're not exactly subtle with all the Jackpot teases, MJ and Paul mention Jackpot every five minutes to the point the catchphrase loses all meaning. Paul also knows about the "three skulls" and their potentially fatal consequences, which begs the question why he built that into the watch in the first place

If the whole "MJ dying" thing is actually a cover-up and MJ is just faking the dead for some inane reason and is moonlighting as Jackpot, I'm gonna look into being among the first to colonize Mars.

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#26749: May 9th 2023 at 10:34:07 PM

[up] It's just so oddly placed, I'm actually convinced those Lars theories about Peter and Paul may be true now, they both said the same thing to Rabin (get away from her) and they have the same fantasy (assuming the punches thrown from both weren't flash forwards or flashbacks)

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#26750: May 10th 2023 at 3:21:33 AM

New Silk limited series and Extreme Venomverse both launch today.

Venomverse is ok, but not as zany (or surprising) as the Edge of Spider-Verse stuff. One story where Eddie becomes Spider-Man, an outright hero, after Peter's death (although his guilt and faith makes him a little more like Daredevil in personality). One with a whole family of Venoms and a troubled young version of Dylan. And Samurai Venom, which is probably the most interesting to me just because of the touches of cyberpunk and FFVII influence in its world. The other two are modern NYC, this one's a very different setting, which I'd like to see more of. And yes, just like Spider-Verse, someone is recruiting Venoms.

I'm not sure how friendly Silk is to new readers - she's in a Film Noir setting, a detective decades ago in Los Angeles. With her powers intact, fighting demons and mobsters to save a child kidnapped for ransom. And that's a strong intro and nicely done. And then the First-Episode Twist (spoiled by later solicitations) is that Cindy's actually unconscious, a prisoner of old villain Saya Ishii - Silvermane's daughter - and her brother Max. She's trapped in a Lotus-Eater Machine for some reason.

...and at that point, unless you know her history with Saya and Max , it's probably a bit confusing. Liked it, though.


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