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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#25826: Feb 13th 2023 at 9:29:46 AM

Yeah but OMD was the breaking point for the illusion of change.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#25827: Feb 13th 2023 at 9:31:37 AM

Yea, that was when the Man Behind The Curtain revealed itself—they felt like they'd plateaued and couldn't go on without a reset.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#25828: Feb 13th 2023 at 9:38:29 AM

Something I'd note is, it's a little unclear if Marvel Comics can use the MCU MJ. Since that character's named Michelle, not Mary Jane, they count as an original creation of the films, not an adaptation, and those Spider-Man films are still officially Sony's property.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#25829: Feb 13th 2023 at 10:37:54 AM

Didn't they take the name from some short lived character from the comics, anyway?

Edited by Blueace on Feb 13th 2023 at 3:38:11 PM

Wake me up at your own risk.
knightstorm Since: Feb, 2022
#25830: Feb 13th 2023 at 11:18:11 AM

[up][up][up]ironically enough...it's OMD that created that plateau. The books have hit a creative dead end.

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#25832: Feb 13th 2023 at 12:02:00 PM

"This change in storyline also led to the increase in prominence of Luke Cage and Mary Jane Watson, the creation of the Punisher, and Green Goblin's status as Spider-Man's main enemy going forward."

The latter is kinda funny to think about given Norman died and stayed dead for 20-ish years in the same story; it was Harry who became the Goblin after.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#25833: Feb 13th 2023 at 12:06:40 PM

> Marvel promises May's issues of Amazing Spider-Man will be the most shocking since the death of Gwen Stacy

Yeah. Sure. I'm shaking.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Feb 13th 2023 at 4:37:01 AM

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#25834: Feb 13th 2023 at 12:08:40 PM

Any attempts at "most shocking" peaked in 90s when Aunt May died and that didn't last, and OMD (the real "last shocking change") essentially killed the essence of the character and guaranteed that almost nothing counts going forward because it's essentially an alternate reality, and even then it walks back on all it's shocking changes all the time.

knightstorm Since: Feb, 2022
#25835: Feb 13th 2023 at 12:10:54 PM

I'm guessing the "shocking" issue in May will be MJ being pregnant by Paul...and Peter being named the baby's godfather. With Post OMD ASM...I always anticipate the worst.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#25836: Feb 13th 2023 at 12:14:17 PM

Maybe those kids are Peter and MJ, displaced through time.

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#25837: Feb 13th 2023 at 12:24:05 PM

[up] Or the real Peter and MJ, with the adult versions being gods in human form looking after them.

Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#25838: Feb 13th 2023 at 1:42:15 PM

Maybe the shocking twist will be all the friends we made along the way.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#25839: Feb 13th 2023 at 2:12:27 PM

So... Paul is really Mephisto?

Paul is really Peter, and Peter has been Mephisto all along?

Paul, MJ and the kids are all S.H.I.E.L.D. LMDs and the real MJ is off in space as the new herald of Galactus?

I mean, I've heard worse ideas...

Edited by Mrph1 on Feb 13th 2023 at 10:12:56 AM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#25840: Feb 13th 2023 at 4:23:47 PM

I remember reading interviews about how even in the 60's Spider-Man was bound to a status quo and going to college with a new circle of friends were kinda just replacements for his high school days.

I think that was said more about his graduate studies, given that the changes feel very superficial: he's still attending university, he gets a better job at the daily globe, but he's still working as a photographer for a newspaper. He gets a new circle of friends, one of which is a blonde woman who has the same haughty response to Peter that Gwen did. This was also shortly after they prevented him from graduating in the first place due to a missed credit, and quickly relented on that due to fan outcry, so it does appear there was an effort to keep things changing too much.

However... I don't call this the illusion of change. Frankly, there was still change, even if they're deliberately keeping things familiar. Seeing Peter move from High School to University to Grad School involves personal achievement, and is a logical progression for him. Same for moving into a better job - the dynamics change, even if the job itself isn't different, and it's nice to see that progression. Also: for the most part, Peter still retains his old friends, and characters like Jameson and Robbie still have parts in the story when Peter's at the Daily Globe, so it's not like they get replaced by facsimiles. And even when new friends are introduced, Peter's dynamic changes, he becomes more mature and more accepted by his peers (especially shown when dealing with older characters, like Flash).

I think the Spider-man comics showed you can have actual growth and change, in smaller ways, without needing to irrevocably shake up the status quo every time. Things like Aunt May dying, getting married, having a child, losing Gwen - those are all big changes for him. But even outside of those events, he still felt like he was having constant progress forward (at least we're I'm at in the 80s, and what I know of future issues).

It's when they start reverting changes that it shows that he can't progress. And I think the smaller, more constant changes have also stopped mattering both because of the reversal of large changes and because the book has lost the idea of forward progress. He keeps going back to work as a freelancer for Jameson specifically, getting better jobs but then losing them. He gets a science job at the Tricorp Foundation in the 90s, then the eerily similar Horizon Labs in Slott's run, now working for OsCorp... the same beats happening in a cycle, and not having a lasting impact on the character. He acts like a manchild, feeling like he never had the development he had over the course of the comics.

Parker Industries is especially bad for this.

Flash keeps going back to asking like his high school self, MJ and Peter go back to dating and then get broken up, Black Cat is all over the place, etc... it's the fact that nothing has an impact and can just be tossed out, even on the smaller level, that makes me feel like change doesn't matter in Spider-man (or a lot of marvel comics).

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#25841: Feb 13th 2023 at 4:42:20 PM

TTBT, comics to me feel more and more like a good source of stories for adaptations, but generally a mess as a continuous medium.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#25842: Feb 13th 2023 at 6:10:43 PM

There's a funny bit that I remember this post made comparing Wally West and Peter.

Wally West and Peter Parker

Just read the most recent Amazing Spiderman, where it's revealed that MJ IS married to a schlub named Paul and the two little kids are theirs. And they build on the misery that is Peter Parker's life, with editorial determined to make Peter relatable by never letting him be happy and never letting him marry or have kids, especially with MJ. I think they even explicitly said this.

Meanwhile, even though editorial went in a different direction for awhile, the Flash comics have given us a Wally West that is happy, restored his marriage and kids, and yes, he is still relatable. Heck, even Lois and Clark have a strong marriage (with some kink even!) that remains a good storytelling device and they have not one but now three kids.

Counting my blessings being a DC fan. :)

Which granted DC has plenty of issues with heroes in relationships, but at least Wally's married status actually came back and he got to have kids within main canon

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#25843: Feb 13th 2023 at 6:14:33 PM

Can I have some cliff notes on what we know about Paul? Most seem to think he’s shifty but is that actually indicated by he stories?

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#25844: Feb 14th 2023 at 3:52:41 AM

[up] It's largely interpreted from the way Romita Jr draws him, making him look a bit sus, plus that flashback they have of him punching Peter out in front of MJ. And there was that indication he was very controlling of MJ during the hellfire gala issues.

If you read the new script guide to Spider-Man that came out, Wells apparently wanted people to like Paul, rofl

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#25845: Feb 14th 2023 at 4:05:11 AM

But... why would anyone like him?

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#25847: Feb 14th 2023 at 5:03:10 AM

[up] Imagine if that ends up being the actual case.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#25850: Feb 14th 2023 at 5:10:10 AM

"But he didn't *look* purple - how was I to know?"

Must admit, I was also wondering how the timing aligns to the end of Aaron's very long Avengers arc, where the time travel and alternate world chaos may just change Mephisto's status quo.

Taking Mephisto off the board in that book and upturning the OMD fallout because he's suddenly been Ret-Goned would be hilarious, but also an Ass Pull unless it's foreshadowed in Spider-books.


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