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Spider-Man General Discussion

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This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.

  • Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
  • Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
  • Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread which covers them.

Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.

Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.

Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).

     Original Thread OP 
Since everyone likes talking about him. I know little about him(Ironically,I got nearly all I know about him from a Batman thread),but he's apparently important so I made this thread. Enjoy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#25126: Oct 29th 2022 at 3:46:54 AM

Well, the time they were dating wasn't healthy because of Felicia's hang-ups about his identity. She's since gotten over that and fallen in love in Peter, but that was after he got married so she missed her chance (and regretted it).

Then BND happens and she forgot his identity and basically regressed to her old personality when they hooked up. They're much healthier now after she's learned his identity again, but haven't had a relationship since that point.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#25127: Oct 29th 2022 at 4:33:58 AM

Yeah, this is probably the healthiest romantic relationship Peter and Felicia have ever had with each other.

Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#25128: Oct 29th 2022 at 10:52:16 AM

Zarius, I grew up on Peter and MJ being married. I definitely prefer Peter with MJ. So I'm not coming at this from a shipping standpoint. My point is that, when someone can't be with the one they love, they find someone else. The current story has them broken up; that's not going to change any time soon. Eventually, sure, they'll get back together (and then break up again, and then get together again, and break up again, and so on for eternity). But for right now, they're broken up. So the only issue is how to have Peter handle the break-up.

Would you prefer Peter refuse to move on? To have him spend all his time pining for MJ, angsting over how he can't be with her? Because, I'll be honest, that sounds like it would be a shitty story, and would also be deeply unhealthy behaviour on Peter's part. So, instead, he can just accept that things are over with MJ, and try to move on with his life, by getting together with someone he's long had feelings for and has a good chemistry with. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but he's trying. He's making an effort to move on with his life. And hey, maybe it will work for a while. Maybe we'll get a solid 5 or more years of Peter and Felicia as a happy couple. Or maybe the story will be about how their relationship fails because Peter still can't get over MJ.

Either way, judge the story for what it actually is. Don't declare it an unhealthy relationship before it even starts just because you can't get over Peter and MJ being together. People will get invested, or not, based on how the story is told. You've gotta remember that, despite these characters having decades of history, each story is its own thing, and deserves to be judged on its own merits, not based on what came before or speculation on what may come after.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#25129: Oct 29th 2022 at 11:14:03 AM

Ideally, you're supposed to get over your feelings for your ex and then start dating someone else, not the other way around.

'Course, editorial probably also has a mandate that Peter can only go so long without dating someone.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#25130: Oct 29th 2022 at 11:32:15 AM

Did Felicia dump Odessa or does she have two hands or what?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#25131: Oct 29th 2022 at 11:34:25 AM

Amusingly Peter possibility using Felicia is a reversal of Batman/Catwoman's relationship where Selina is the toxic partner using Bruce

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#25132: Oct 29th 2022 at 12:26:48 PM

[up][up] I recall them breaking up in Felicia's solo title.

[up] I don't think it is entirely accurate to say he's just using her. As Tiamatty pointed, the relationship with MJ initially started as him trying to get over Gwen to some extent.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#25133: Oct 29th 2022 at 12:41:16 PM

Alas.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RedM Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
#25134: Oct 29th 2022 at 8:44:02 PM

I reserve judgement on the run until it's over. Everyone freaks out whenever something happens in a Spider-Man story as if forgetting that the beginning of a story is not the end. Just look at the hysteria when Superior Spider-Man came out and people thought that Dan Slott actually preferred Otto to Peter and thought that this was the way things should be. Then of course we gave the story some time to conclude and realized that, okay, Peter is the Superior Spider-Man all along. Almost as if the points that were made at the beginning of the story were later refuted once the protagonist had learned his lesson.

At some hypothetical future date, when Susie P. Comicbook starts her ASM run with a depressed Peter saying, "I hate puppies", I don't wanna hear y'all taking to the forums to decry this character assassination or whatever, because I guarantee that after 30 thrilling and well-written issues, Susie P. Comicbook is gonna hit us with a wiser, happier Peter reaching the light at the end of his emotional tunnel and saying, "I love puppies." Ya gots ta give these things time to play out.

The very best, like no one ever was. Check out my Spider-Man fanfic here! [1]
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#25135: Oct 29th 2022 at 8:45:44 PM

That's a horrendous example because if Peter starts randomly acting out of character and displaying behaviors he never has before people would be right to call it out.

edit: SSM probably also isn't a good example because that was deliberately engineered to create outrage

Edited by Saiga on Oct 29th 2022 at 8:46:13 AM

RedM Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
#25137: Oct 29th 2022 at 8:50:18 PM

[up][up]People do a lot of things that are "out of character" when they're at low points emotionally. But that's not the point. I just think it's a good idea to view the story as a whole and reserve judgment until it's over, and also to be okay with stories where characters make bad decisions but learn something by the end.

SSM is a great example, because "engineered" or not, people fell for it hook, line, and sinker. They lost their minds about a story that hadn't delivered its actual thesis statement yet.

Getting mad about the first arc of someone's run is like walking out of a movie at minute 30.

[up]Go easy on Ms. Comicbook; no one was braver in the face of the Comicgate 2.0 of the early 2030s. Plus her 100-issue run on Morbius & Stilt-Man puts her / will have put her among the all-time greats.

Edited by RedM on Oct 29th 2022 at 8:55:14 AM

The very best, like no one ever was. Check out my Spider-Man fanfic here! [1]
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#25138: Oct 29th 2022 at 9:07:33 PM

I thought it was obvious that Superior Spider-Man would eventually wind up doing an Azbat type thing. But I’m terminally poisoned by comic books so I can’t hold everyone to that jaded standard

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#25139: Oct 29th 2022 at 9:23:16 PM

I feel like things would have gone less chaotic if Slott didn't fan the flames by provoking the fanbase

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#25140: Oct 29th 2022 at 9:26:42 PM

Plus like there were those covers that had Otto giving a Forceful Kiss to MJ.

While in the actual issue, he breaks up with her.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#25141: Oct 29th 2022 at 9:29:06 PM

Yeah, Marvel and Slott were definitely courting controversy and Slott didn't respond well to the anger he was stirring up.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#25142: Oct 29th 2022 at 9:30:38 PM

The fact that SSM was engineered outrage doesn't prove anything: of course they got outraged. Because Slott wanted them to be outraged and went about making them get outraged. That makes it a terrible example of anything except for comics using outrage and controversy to get attention.

It was completely unnecessary for SSM's story to make it that provocative in the beginning, and if anything it undermines the storyline itself to push the outrageous elements over what the story was actually building.

I never thought it would be permanent, but I still hated it at the time and looking back it still has a downright awful beginning that really doesn't actually need to be so contentious.

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#25143: Oct 29th 2022 at 9:50:47 PM

i hated that everyone spock interacted with lost 50 iq points so they wouldnt figure it out immediately.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#25144: Oct 29th 2022 at 11:25:23 PM

I actually liked Spider-Ock much better in the second series.

It actually hurt when he sold his soul to Mephisto.

Though I do have an semi-ironic love for Superior volume 1.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 29th 2022 at 2:25:52 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Nofix from Over there Since: Jan, 2015
#25145: Oct 29th 2022 at 11:47:11 PM

I still lowkey think that a good way to have resolved the Spider-Ock things would have been involve one of Peter's clones finding out somehow (Spider-Totem stuff maybe?), coming back, pretending to be the real Spider-Man, calling out Otto as a fake, and have a bit where Otto is trying to figure out who the hell this guy is.

Seriously, you can imagine Otto sweating bullets, honestly thinking Peter has made a return somehow, slowly getting more and more sloppy as "Peter" gets under his skin, before he figures out it's Ben or Kaine. Hell, Kaine killed Otto back during the Clone Saga, so this would be an interesting rematch between the two of them, both former villains, both acting as very different kinds of anti-heroes, and both trying to live up to Peter's legacy in their own weird ways.

Apparently the two did meet during this time, in Superior Spider-Man Team-Up #2, and that seems kind of like a waste to me. The synopsis sounds like the most throwaway thing ever.

Maybe I'm the only guy that wants the Spider-Brothers to be a thing, but I dunno, I think it could have worked. I doubt Slott wanted to do things like this, or that Marvel wants anything to do with a happy Peter or Ben.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#25146: Oct 29th 2022 at 11:58:08 PM

How much of the outrage provoking was in response to Slott being harassed and threatened by fans?

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#25147: Oct 30th 2022 at 1:32:31 AM

Can't really speak for pre-Superior that much, but Slott did have a reputation for a lot of good spidey stories during his run even if it was flawed.

But her seriously provoked a lot of shit during his Superior run.

And let's not forget that whole Twitter Silk debacle.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#25148: Oct 30th 2022 at 1:37:02 AM

[up][up] Being harassed or even receiving death threats wouldn't justify intentionally riling people up, even if some amount of that is what inspired him to do so.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#25149: Oct 30th 2022 at 5:43:47 AM

Yeah, Slott was being provoked by the fans long before Superior, so I do have some sympathy for him. There are definitely places where he went too far, though, particularly winding people up about the Rape by Fraud issue.

In general fans often interpret bad things happening to Pete as personal attacks for some reason, long before and long after Slott. I guess because he's the everyman of Marvel's A-listers. Or something.

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#25150: Oct 31st 2022 at 11:01:26 AM

Tiamatty, I AM judging the story on it's own merits. What I'm seeing from the story is my own take, if you have a different perspective, that's cool, but this is MY take, and yes, I think Peter is approaching the relationship with Felicia in an unhealthy manner and nothing you say will change my mind on that.

Peter knows MJ's relationship with Paul is sus and controlling. He challenged MJ on her feelings for Paul, he should be investigating the guy and trying to find out what his deal is, maybe bring Felicia into it too, instead of trying to bury his feelings and shacking up with a woman who has proven time and again to be an incompatible match.

Felicia is being used, and Peter isn't over MJ, and won't be for the duration of this run, and it's this reality that mars this entire run. But hey, their fans aren't going to care, for now they're eating well, but they're in for a rude awakening.

Would I be fine if Peter didn't get over MJ? Yes, I would. You can have your own opinion of me and my tastes, but whenever Peter has ever given up on MJ and vice versa, it's never wrung true, it's not who he is as a character. MJ is his soulmate, his best friend and his anchor, she makes him who he is, and he stated in the Spencer run that NOTHING works without her. This applies just as much to NOONE ever being able to measure up, and Felicia is going to learn that, and I will be there for it.

ALL roads lead back to MJ.

I love how you think this is because I can't 'get over' Peter and MJ. Mate, I'm getting five months of Official Peter/MJ fiction stating in November from a writer that actually gives a damn. I'm feasting VERY well. Marvel are keeping Peter/MJ, and more importantly, their marriage and child, in the spotlight while all this is going on. That says to me a lot more than dating some B-lister.

Edited by Zarius on Oct 31st 2022 at 11:22:45 AM


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