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RodimusMinor Not actually a minor
Not actually a minor
Aug 13th 2019 at 6:01:38 PM

[up][up][up]"It's not like it was when I was a kid" there I just summed up the entire downfall of the superhero comics industry not related to Diamond.

Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Aug 13th 2019 at 6:21:23 PM

But what do they say to justify to themselves without sounding like man-children?

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alliterator professional crastinator from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
professional crastinator
Aug 13th 2019 at 6:23:08 PM

The Night Gwen Stacy Died is too much of a sacred cow in many’s eyes
It was, right up until Spider-Gwen became unexpectedly popular. Seriously, the first Spider-Verse crossover, the writers and editors were all set to spin-off Spider-Woman and Silk books, but the Spider-Gwen issue of Edge of Spider-Verse sold like gangbusters, so they hurriedly greenlit a Spider-Gwen book, too. And now little kids are dressing up like Spider-Gwen without even the knowledge of what happened to the 616 Gwen.

Edited by alliterator on Aug 13th 2019 at 6:23:46 AM

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Aug 13th 2019 at 6:28:59 PM

So if One More Day were done today, heaven forfend, they might have gone with the slightly bigger retcon where Gwen is alive again or had always been.

Now that the groundwork has been done making Gwen something other than too good for this sinful world she died too soon Saint Gwen in the public perception.

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 13th 2019 at 9:29:10 AM

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HamburgerTime All things pure and good. from Garamsythe Sewer Relationship Status: I know
All things pure and good.
Aug 13th 2019 at 6:33:04 PM

I've said this before, but I think I can, maybe not fix, but substantially improve OMD in five words:

MJ is the one shot.

There's nothing that needs mending/Just follow my words, they will lead you to the ending.
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Aug 13th 2019 at 6:33:39 PM

"I picked... the wrong day... to wear.... my Bullseye t-shirt..."

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Aug 13th 2019 at 6:38:25 PM

Quesada wouldn't have wanted that because it would be counter-intuitive to get Peter on the dating route after he sacrificed his marriage to save his beloved wife from death. As it is BND still looks pretty skeevy as it does but that would have been Cyclops and Emma making out on Jean's grave bad, and apparently that was also something Quesada had insisted to Grant Morrison. Morrison apparently didn't plan on killing Jean Grey but editors insisted that she was too powerful. And Grant Morrison decided to have Cyclops move on from Jean quickly...rather than mourn her.

Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Aug 13th 2019 at 6:47:26 PM

"Its fine, her ghost from the future told me that I have to make out with you or else the world will go to hell."
"Curse my fetish for people who are just broken deep down inside!"

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 13th 2019 at 9:47:58 AM

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Aug 13th 2019 at 8:39:11 PM

Question: Did OMD create an alternate timeline, or just alter everyone’s memories? Or was that never actually clarified?

Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Aug 13th 2019 at 8:48:44 PM

I don't know if it was ever clarified but by the rules of Marvel time travel, changing the past should have created a new timeline but its treated like its happening in the main 616 continuity and Quesada said all the stories are valid just happened without MJ and Peter being married but blanched when reminded of the pregnancy subplot from Clone Saga II and clarified that the baby never happened (which I disagree with)

So it can't just be changing memories because events have been ostensibly changed. And it can't be changes to the timeline because thats supposed to create offshoot timelines. But its magic so they don't have to explain it except that it involves a large man falling on Peter and knocking him unconscious.

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Aug 13th 2019 at 9:35:57 PM

[up]. If this is a new timeline, the paradox it created hurts my head a bit.

The weirdest thing about the whole situation to me, is that by making the deal, it effectively retcons it. If Peter and MJ were never married, then they couldn’t have made the deal in the first place.

Which kinda leaves the whole story in limbo. It’s nearly impossible to talk about Modern Spider-Man without it, but none of the bizarre and nonsensical crap that actually happened can be addressed since that story is technically not in continuity anymore.

Edited by megaeliz on Aug 14th 2019 at 7:21:34 AM

Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Aug 13th 2019 at 9:41:45 PM

I kind of wish they had done a thing where all the magic and hell oriented characters would side-eye Peter slash Spider-Man whenever they were in a room together.

Ghost Rider could be like 'this is rich coming from me but why do you smell like a dumbass?'

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HamburgerTime All things pure and good. from Garamsythe Sewer Relationship Status: I know
All things pure and good.
Aug 13th 2019 at 9:43:13 PM

Yeah, that's something that has been often pointed out. Officially, OMD did not create an alternate universe, which breaks Marvel's in-house rules for Cosmic Retcons, which is that they always create one.

There's nothing that needs mending/Just follow my words, they will lead you to the ending.
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Aug 13th 2019 at 9:44:23 PM

Bendis also fucked this up with Days of Ultron Past

For shame, modern Marvel

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Blueace Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Aug 13th 2019 at 9:45:15 PM

The power idiots have over the universe, right?

HamburgerTime All things pure and good. from Garamsythe Sewer Relationship Status: I know
All things pure and good.
Aug 13th 2019 at 9:48:11 PM

Incidentally, Kobik's meddling with Captain America's history did obey the rules (many were afraid it wouldn't), and as a result Stevil is officially the Steve Rogers of universe 61311.

There's nothing that needs mending/Just follow my words, they will lead you to the ending.
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Relationship Status: Brony
Aug 13th 2019 at 10:36:17 PM

Personal note, I've always hated the idea that time travel even has rules. In particular, the idea that it always creates an alternate reality is fucking stupid. It accomplishes nothing. It sucks all the tension out of any time travel story, because it literally doesn't matter. Let people go back and murder Lincoln, who cares, the world doesn't change, everything's fine.

Unless, of course, you introduce some sort of method or time travel to change the present. In which case, the "rule" is still totally pointless, it just means writers have to throw in a line of dialogue explaining how this time traveler has a way of making their changes stick. And if there's a way to do that, why not just assume all time travelers are using it?

I'm fine with time travel sometimes making new timelimes. Or even that as what usually happens. But I would just throw out the idea that time travel actually has any rules. I would just say that the consequences of time travel are unpredictable at best, and there's no way of knowing how any trip will go. Will it create a new timeline? Will it change the existing timeline? Will it just snap back and not let the change happen in the first place? You can never know for sure.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Aug 13th 2019 at 10:39:56 PM

Its so Ben Grimm could be Blackbeard without massively fucking up history in a way that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby didn't want to strain over

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Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Relationship Status: Brony
Aug 13th 2019 at 11:16:04 PM

[up] Except I'm pretty sure Lee and Kirby intended that Ben actually was Blackbeard (mostly because they didn't give a damn if it made sense, the point was that it was fun). It was later stories by other creators who came up with time travel making new timelines. I think it was Gruenwald who was the one who declared that was how it always worked? But Lee and Kirby, and other '60s and '70s creators, always seemed to operate under the logic that time travel changed the present. Because that's the whole point of time travel stories. The tension of either stopping the villain from changing time, or the hero succeeding in it.

There is zero tension in a time travel story that just creates an alternate timeline. None. It is an utter waste of time. There is never any point in stopping a villain from changing history if the villain can't change history. There's no point in a hero trying to prevent their own bad future if it's impossible to do.

Maybe it makes sense from a logical standpoint, but it makes no sense at all from a creative standpoint.

Edited by Tiamatty on Aug 13th 2019 at 2:16:19 PM

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Aug 13th 2019 at 11:23:33 PM

You can still have people coming back from the future to try to change their past. Since the 616's future isn't set and all. Except from the perspective of the time travelers but who gives a shit about them. They're from Bad Future.

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Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Relationship Status: Brony
Aug 13th 2019 at 11:34:09 PM

[up] That's my point. They can never avert their bad future. Which makes the attempt utterly meaningless. Like, Cable returned to the present to prevent his timeline from occurring. Except, oops! He can't. Just in general, you can't tell a story about someone going back in time to stop something from happening. Because we, the readers, know that it still happened. We know that the time traveler accomplished nothing.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Aug 13th 2019 at 11:35:15 PM

Its what they deserve for time traveling.

Time is fundamentally broken in the Marvel Universe and they keep fracturing it more and more. They're the worst.

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 13th 2019 at 2:37:25 PM

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Nightwire Humans inferior. Ultron superior. Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Humans inferior. Ultron superior.
Aug 13th 2019 at 11:47:01 PM

Cable is Future Trunks basically.

Bite my shiny Vibranium ass, Avengers.
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Aug 14th 2019 at 12:19:25 AM

[up][up]If Cable is Future Trunks what does that make Bishop?


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