Spider-Man General Discussion

For a very long long time superheroes just did not kill

It did end up happening sometimes and it was always treated as a big deal. The Avengers for instance used to put their members on trial to determine whether the death was avoidable.

They became a lot more kill willing after Ultimate Marvel started bleeding back into the main line. Which is why the idea that the Avengers need Wolverine to cross the line they won’t cross is laughable.

Anyway, it is usually treated as an absolute last resort.

There was an instance where a I wanna say Hydra goon picked up a gun and opened fire on a crowd of bystanders and without his shield, the only way Cap could minimize casualties was to pick up a gun and shoot the guy

It’s not treated as such a big deal anymore. Now Carol Marvel can gleefully kill Skrulls in Secret Invasion and nobody bats an eye. Bendis made Hawkeye the Avenger most willing and eager to kill when he was previously the most stick up his butt about it.

Edited by Bocaj on Jan 18th 2019 at 10:49:48 AM

Yeah, that jumped put at me about Bendis’s Hawkeye as well. Heck, in Avengers Forever, Hawkeye won’t even kill Immortus’s soldiers even though all he has are real arrows and no trick arrows. For the same reason, trying to make 616 Hawkeye into a black ops guy has never jelled with his original characterization as a show-off carny who needs to be in the spotlight in order to prove himself and justify his being on a team with gods and mutants.

Then again, Carol was pretty adamant against killing Norman Osborn and everyone freaked out when Magneto killed the Red Skull.

Killing and how to handle it will always be an issue in Superhero comics one way or another.

As for Frank trying to take on Spidey in a fight:

As others said, Pete has had issues with normal people (some have even been able to rough him up despite his strength) and I've often notice some comics where he does something and someone who's fought him or fought alongside him realizes just how much he holds back and pulls his punches.

Peter isn't serious a lot of the time, making jokes and being a goof, so people often forget just how strong he is, and don't realize how boned they'd be if he was willing to kill.

Frank, Daredevil, Kingpin, and Doc Ock have all realized this under different circumstances.

One example being in the Death of Jean De Wolff when DD manages to knock out Spidey, but thought-balloons to himself that it was a really close shave and he only managed it because A. he tried to end things quick with an instant knockout and B. Peter was in full-on rage mode and was swinging wildly rather than fighting as he usually would.

In the MCU, the Avengers totally kill people. Captain America in Winter Soldier redirected bullet-fire from his Shield on to Hydra goons. And of course they have a no-quarter policy towards aliens and robots.

Yeah. I remember another DD / Spidey encountered where the latter had been rendered blind, and in frustration, he smashed a chimney to rubble with his fist.

Daredevil immediately twigs as to how strong Peter is with that particular feat.

And in Ock's case, he had to actually become Peter and apparently nearly punched Scorpion's jaw clean off.

Yeah, the MCU draws from Ultimate Marvel where the Ultimates were willing to kill even as a first resort and Hawkeye was a SHIELD agent.

Also, in the Sinister Six books by Adam Troy Castro, Peter gets pissed off enough about Doc Ock trying to recreate George Stacy’s death that he easily dodges into the spaghetti thrashing of adamantium limbs and breaks Ock’s shoulder with a single punch

He’s too nice to maintain that level of bloodlust though so he ends up taking his own licks and ends up passing out after Ock turns tail and flees.

I do like those books.

So who's Mysterion from Superior Spider-Man supposed to be? I honestly thought he was the Miles Morales of 616 which is cool actually but then he isn't. Do they ever explain who he is?

Isn't 616-Miles living it up in Spider-Miles' home universe right now?

Yes, but 616 Miles was a mystery between Spider-Men and Spider-Men 2, which was quite a while

Looks like Cletus is putting the old gang (except Carrion) back together.

No, he's just some random schmo who got Mysterio gear from the Hobgoblin.

So they made a mini mystery to Mysterion(pun intended)and didn't pay it off? seems to be a bad habit with Mysterio's in general. Does anyone remember Mysterio came back with his head blown off and attacked Spidey's school? or the 2 other Mysterio's? what happened to them?

Well when Mysterion first showed up, Miles was still in 1610. i mean Mysterion had that feeling of what if Miles followed in Uncle Aaron's footsteps but wasn't cruel enough to do it. speaking of which i hear Aaron's alive again. Can someone bring me up to speed?

Marvel to launch new five-issue Spider-Man mini-series: Symbiote Spider-Man by Peter David and Greg Land. On the one hand: Peter David. On the other hand: Greg Land.

Berkhart and Klum are both believed to be dead, the former killed by the Other, the latter killed by Jack O'Lantern.

He's now a villainous Iron Spider.

PAD is prone to getting questionable artists.

Kurt Busiek has been active on this CBR thread lately (pages 7-9) talking Spidey with fans. He brings up his opinions on Mary Jane, Aunt May, and why the Red Skull from the original "Peter's Parents" story had to be revealed as an imposter due to Stan not keeping up with Kirby's continuity.

Some interesting stuff

I don’t necessarily agree that having someone like MJ know diminishes the tension between Peter’s superhero/adult responsibilities and his immature/not flunking out of school/not dying alone ones

Having someone in the know can actually increase the tension as they know why Peter has to run off but are very concerned for his safety

Holy shit Jack, good thing Kurt Busiek is very understanding and professional. Still please refrain from using extreme titles.

Oh man, i loved Untold tales of Spider-Man, my favorite part was the arcs with Sally and her friend, i really just love stories about how people would react to the events around them, it's not like Flash is the only fanboy of Spider-Man is it? Also i really loved Harry's issue. And it's also very telling Gwen doesn't get an issue to herself but MJ does. I can't post, but if someone can give a Kurt a message, tell him Untold tales is one of my favorites series.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jan 20th 2019 at 1:56:00 AM

Jack didn't create that thread, if that's what you're implying

i meant he was in a right behind me sort of situation.

In the words of Peter B. Parker, I handled it like a champ. As alliterator and others here tried to point this out to me, I was dead wrong about Mr. Busiek about some of the stuff I said before here and in that message board, though I still disagree about some of his other stuff, and especially his involvement in Jean Grey's resurrection. Like he wasn't all that into Peter being in high school as I wrongly believed he was. He does go into detail about how Untold Tales came into being, like originally he wanted it be in the college era but as a pitch he started with the bit about Aunt May's reaction to Peter not wearing glasses and that became an exploration of the Lee Ditko era. The high school focus was also accidental because the original run covered Peter's time in the Bugle and Busiek didn't know how to fit an untold tale there. He said that he would have continued into the college era had the series not been canceled.

Recently with Saladin Ahmad's Annual focusing and Peter David's upcoming Symbiote Spider-Man, both of which are untold tales set between ASM #252-#257, i.e. the Alien Costume era...I think the concept of Untold Tales is ripe for revival.

Have they revealed Mysterio's demonic benefactor yet? Was interested when I saw Spencer dug that abandoned thread back up.

So I've been gone for four issues from ASM, but since when did Fisk become mayor of New York with the horrible stuff he's pulled and has been public knowledge over both the course of Daredevil's and ASM's continuity? And when did he become a vegetarian?

I think him becoming mayor is thanks to his actions Under the Dome during Secret Empire where he built up a lot of goodwill by helping the other trapped people