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What to do about Troper Tales.

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HarryMiste Curtain Call from Dark Side Of The Moon Since: Dec, 2009
Curtain Call
#126: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:47:36 PM

There's taking things out of context and taking things so out of context that you're forgetting basic common sense. You're erring on the side of no one has ever read anything ever that wasn't squeeky clean. They'll have no idea how to react to jokes, fiction, or sarcasm.

There were no admissions of paedophilia. One of them said porn in general was illegal where they live. Some places it's illegal to have gay porn. None of them said they were molesting children or even thinking about it.

One of the entries I picked out had a link going to Lolicon. That's damning evidence of at least some paedophilic tendencies. While it's better than going out and actually doing it, the end result is you get a website that doesn't care if some of its members get off to little girls.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but there is no "big lie", there is no "system". The universe is indifferent.
Redhead Since: Jan, 2011
#127: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:48:27 PM

I wonder if TT pages are more likely to require flagging.

The new It Just Bugs Me!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#128: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:48:33 PM

Then you cut the damn link. Or clean up the couple of bad seeds. I'm only going on what you posted since I haven't been able to find any of this stuff on my own.

edited 1st Feb '11 11:49:29 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
AmbassadorFriendly Since: Feb, 2011
#129: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:50:02 PM

shimaspawn, the quote from the porn stash page is

"This troper has nothing to worry about: his computer-only porn stash is protected by RAM-only file systems, encryption, passwords, steganography, dead-man's switches, and careful selection of software. Not even the FBI could get their hands on it — and for good reason."

The link attached to "for good reason"? Lolicon

SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#130: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:50:25 PM

[up][up] That doesn't address the fact the page is a breeding ground for these sort of people.

Anyone here want to curate the page?

edited 1st Feb '11 11:51:32 PM by SpellBlade

melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#131: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:51:35 PM

Because the concept of Troper Tales will invariably breed egotistical, psychopathic and creepy entries. Suggesting you should keep it around doesn't look to kindly on this site.

"People talking about themselves" -> "egotistical, psychopathic and creepy"

I'm still not seeing it.

yggidee Since: Mar, 2015
#132: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:51:47 PM

Nothing would make me happier than the removal of Troper Tales

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#133: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:51:53 PM

You haven't proven that it is. You just keep saying it like saying it will make it true. So far all you've shown is that a small number of pages that are based on sexual content have an issue and that we should cut those small number of pages.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Redhead Since: Jan, 2011
#134: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:52:02 PM

TT is used as a place for the editor to embellish him/herself and to post things that normally wouldn't be allowed on this site or anywhere else. As long as people keep editing TT pages with this mindset, problem pages will creep up over and over again.

edited 1st Feb '11 11:55:37 PM by Redhead

The new It Just Bugs Me!
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#135: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:52:17 PM

I am seriously beginning to believe that this is still trolling. The arguments being put forth boils down to "there are some bad spots in Troper Tales, therefore, you should get rid of the whole Troper Tales section".

Additionally, the "bad spots" are "creepy", apparently because it involves people talking about themselves.

And I have to wonder, why this sudden concern for the reputation of TV Tropes from people who have never posted in the forums before, and never edited the wiki before, except to troll?

TheManInBlack Since: Oct, 2009
#136: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:54:11 PM

Mad, alot of people have posted here like me however. Yeah, some are goons, but so what. We were told to expect them popping up and invited them to.

Pureauthor Since: Jan, 2001
#137: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:54:21 PM

I don't care if it's due to more policing or nuking Troper Tales or moving it offsite or whatever, but all that creepy, weird, and just plain stupid stuff in Troper Tales should be gone. How you want to go about it is up to you, but as it stands the situation is just plain awful.

Redhead Since: Jan, 2011
#138: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:55:09 PM

It's very obvious from that SA thread that most of them do browse the wiki, even if they never bothered posting on the forum until now.

The new It Just Bugs Me!
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#139: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:55:58 PM

Do the supposed benefits TT offers outweigh the drawbacks that come with them? And how much policing would be required to keep them clean, even after we've zapped the bad ones?

yggidee Since: Mar, 2015
#140: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:56:25 PM

I've never posted in the forums before because I didn't know they were HERE. I'm basically a lurker. I'm speaking up now because the topic was brought to my attention- I've always been opposed to Troper Tales but didn't have an avenue to express it until now.

melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#141: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:56:41 PM

Well, just an idea: Cut the problem pages and clean up any bad entries, and see if the presently neutral/positive TT pages go bad. It's not like we can't delete the TT namespace later, whereas deleting everything now is permanent.

^^ There's plenty atm that are clean, even with the presence of the bad ones.

edited 1st Feb '11 11:57:40 PM by melloncollie

AnonymousUser Since: Jan, 2001
#142: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:56:42 PM

Should I put Porn Stash on the Cut List?

I haven't read the whole thing, as it's absolutely huge, but still.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#143: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:57:20 PM

Man In Black: And oddly enough, it's the new names — the people who suddenly appeared tonight, who are all pushing for a complete removal of all the TT pages. Not looking for a solution to the problem of TT pages that are out of line; there's only one solution that they consider acceptable.

edited 1st Feb '11 11:57:50 PM by Madrugada

Ninja_Orca Since: May, 2009
#144: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:57:36 PM

That's just it. A lot of us in the thread are going "We like the wiki, but man stay the hell away from Troper Tales that place is just messed up." Maybe we're just biased or privileged somehow because we've run off people who post like that, but when you have someone being thought of as a Noble Bigot even though they don't thing LGBT people are legitimate, it tends to leave a bad taste in the mouth.

E: And to be fair, I've said that we'd be willing to help with going through Troper Tales and cleaning it out. Heck, we're going through it already mocking stuff, it's not going to take us too much extra time to report stuff.

What I fail to understand is why people are defending this kind of stuff. Maybe what we're calling for is too extreme. I'll grant that. But veiled pedophilia is a pretty poor thing to defend, as is open misogyny and bigotry.

edited 1st Feb '11 11:59:40 PM by Ninja_Orca

AmbassadorFriendly Since: Feb, 2011
#145: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:58:09 PM

Mad, maybe we didn't want to post in the forums because Troper Tales make the forums look creepy? I'm a goon but I definitely browse the main site a lot.

And no, not all the bad spots are people "talking about themselves" to make it creepy. There is legitimate sexism, homophobia, and pedophilia.

But really, the question is why have pages for people talking about themselves? What content does it add? What purpose does it serve in the greater mission of TV Tropes? Why is this the place to share your fetishes and made up stories?

Hell, keep the tapletop gaming stuff if Troper Tales is necessary, but other than that, why have something that really only attracts trolls?

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#146: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:58:52 PM

^^ And no one is defending those pages. Why are you so convinced that every single TT page is a cesspool waiting to boil over and must be destroyed?

edited 1st Feb '11 11:59:05 PM by Madrugada

Meeble likes the cheeses. from the ruins of Granseal Since: Aug, 2009
likes the cheeses.
#147: Feb 1st 2011 at 11:59:38 PM

@Mad: I don't think it's fair to call it trolling. I do believe that most of the people posting in this thread have good intentions for the wiki.

I just don't quite understand the strong adherence to the "Everything must go" idea, when there isn't really much evidence that such a change is needed.

Most people have agreed that the obvious problem pages should go, Fetish Fuel being a prime example. I don't see why we need to go beyond identifying additional problem pages and deciding what to do with them from here.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
Redhead Since: Jan, 2011
#148: Feb 2nd 2011 at 12:00:14 AM

This site exists almost solely due to revenue gained by ad clicks. More traffic means more potential clickers.

Not all pages generate net income revenue.

[up] Because those problem pages aren't going to be gone for good: more will pop up. They didn't stop when Brother Sister Incest was deleted.

edited 2nd Feb '11 12:01:53 AM by Redhead

The new It Just Bugs Me!
PigeonShamus Since: Feb, 2011
#149: Feb 2nd 2011 at 12:00:21 AM

Additionally, the "bad spots" are "creepy", apparently because it involves people talking about themselves.

It involves people talking about how illegal their porn stashes are/about how gays aren't people/about how they're really super-cool and badass despite being lazy and nerds and anything else/about how woman are terrible because they won't date them/about how they creep everyone out. To be so reductive of a substantial swath of people is disingenuous.

And I have to wonder, why this sudden concern for the reputation of TV Tropes from people who have never posted in the forums before, and never edited the wiki before, except to troll?

Lurkers can't be interested? If you've read the SA thread, or our comments here, you'll know we don't hate the idea of TV Tropes - we quite like it. I've edited here before, a couple of years ago, but the creepy and lame elements of it caused me to move away, TT being one of those elements.

Personally, I don't see how any of your criticisms hold water if we just move this offsite. Are TT really that important to the rep of TV Tropes? Do they really add that much to the community? Because they certainly don't add a lot to the perception of it.

Ninja_Orca Since: May, 2009
#150: Feb 2nd 2011 at 12:00:31 AM

@ Meeble - Everything to do with Perverse Sexual Lust would also be a good place to start, considering how many subcategories that has.

20th Apr '10 12:00:00 AM

Crown Description:

Don't bother to say "all of them". Name specific Troper Tales pages that should be axed. An "UP" Vote means you think it should be cut completely. A "DOWN" vote means it should be kept.

"I don't care for this page" is not a reason to cut it. "This page is unsalvagable. Kill it with fire" is.

PLEASE bullet point pro and con examples if there are more than one.
  • Cut
  • Cut
  • Keep
  • Keep

Action will be taken on Tuesday, 8 February 2011.

Total posts: 1,358
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