The Magic Deckbuilding/Criticism/Advice thread.

Since the main Magic The Gathering thread seems to focus more on actually discussing the game, I figured it would be better to have a seperate thread for deckbuilding advice.

I'l start with my new Fungus/Saproling EDH deck:

General

1x Thelon of Havenwood

Creatures

1x Tukatongue Thallid

1x Orochi Leafcaller

1x Herd Gnarr

1x Vitaspore Thallid

1x Verdeloth the Ancient

1x Verdant Force

1x Utopia Mycon

1x Thorn Thallid

1x Thelonite Hermit

1x Thallid Shell-Dweller

1x Thallid Germinator

1x Thallid

1x Sporoloth Ancient

1x Sporesower Thallid

1x Spore Flower

1x Savage Thallid

1x Psychotrope Thallid

1x Nemata, Grove Guardian

1x Mycoloth

1x Feral Thallid

1x Elvish Farmer

1x Deathspore Thallid

1x Golgari Guildmage

1x Viscera Seer

1x Mindbender Spores

Sorceries

1x Reanimate

1x Raise Dead

1x Nature's Spiral

1x Revive

1x Death Mutation

1x Recollect

1x Disentomb

1x Desert Twister

1x Disturbed Burial

1x Diabolic Tutor

1x Aphetto Dredging

1x Bone Splinters

1x Rampant Growth

1x Cultivate

1x Soul Reap

Instants

1x Doom Blade

1x Scatter the Seeds

1x Reclaim

1x Sprout Swarm

1x Sprout

1x Spore Cloud

1x Footbottom Feast

1x Grim Harvest

1x Snuff Out

1x Smother

Enchantments

1x Life and Limb

1x Golgari Germination

1x Fungal Bloom

1x Fists of Ironwood

1x Verdant Embrace

1x Night Soil

Artifacts

1x Prophetic Prism

1x Mana Cylix

1x Expedition Map

1x Crystal Ball

1x Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII

1x Armillary Sphere

1x Contagion Clasp

1x Contagion Engine

Lands

21x Forest

1x Golgari Rot Farm

1x Evolving Wilds

10x Swamp

1x Tainted Wood

1x Terramorphic Expanse

What problems have you come across with the deck? Everything looks good so far, aside from having 35 lands. How often have you been mana screwed?

edited 30th Jan '11 3:18:12 PM by Fifthman

Well, I was just wondering if there were any cards in the deck that could be replaced or something.

For example, I was thinking about replacing Crystal Ball with something that fits the theme of the deck a bit better.

EDIT: Ooooh, I know! Ashes of the Fallen!

edited 30th Jan '11 3:27:56 PM by GuyInWhite

Well, since we're here, lemme post up my current version of black really-really-illegal graveyard control:

Lands:
22x Swamp
2x Cabal Coffers

Creatures:
3x Child of Night
1x Toshiro Umezawa
2x Bog Witch
1x Mortivore
1x Avatar of Woe
1x Dread

Enchantments:
2x Necropotence (yeah, I know, but I dunno where else to put my spare 'Potence)
3x Lethal Vapors

Instants:
3x Tendrils of Corruption
1x Doom Blade
4x Dark Ritual

Sorceries:
4x Consume Spirit
4x Corrupt

Artifacts:
1x Mirari
2x Demon's Horn
1x Skullmead Cauldron
1x Well of Lost Dreams

Just noticed I am actually a card short, so I'll hafta find something to fill that slot...

Thinking of adding a Thornbite Staff, possibly more Doom Blades and/or Go For The Throat.

Thoughts?

You say illegal, I say Yawgmoth's Win. Got a place for that?

In the place of the second Necropotence, yeah, I suppose so.

Alright, I'm building another EDH deck.

So far, I have 88 cards:

General

1x Memnarch

Noncreature Artifacts

1x Voltaic Key

1x Semblance Anvil

1x Guardian Idol

1x Worn Powerstone

1x Golem's Heart

1x Everflowing Chalice

1x Energy Chamber

1x Crystal Ball

1x Temple Bell

1x Trigon of Thought

1x Courier's Capsule

Creatures

1x Broodstar

1x Platinum Angel

1x Memnite

1x Darksteel Colossus

1x Karn, Silver Golem

1x Myr Retreiver

1x Ornithopter

1x Clockwork Condor

1x Silver Myr

1x Assembly-Worker

1x Steel Overseer

1x Razormane Masticore

1x Frogmite

1x Master of Etherium

1x Arcbound Stinger

1x Arcbound Fiend

1x Triskelion

1x Arcbound Hybrid

1x Faerie Mechanist

1x Pentavus

1x Arcbound Worker

1x Darksteel Sentinel

1x Neurok Replica

1x Filigree Sages

1x Clockwork Hydra

1x Trinket Mage

Instants, Sorceries and Enchantments

1x Shape Anew

1x Argivian Restoration

1x Thoughtcast

1x Artificer's Intuition

1x Thirst for Knowledge

1x Machinate

1x Cancel

1x Mana Leak

1x Deprive

Planeswalkers

1x Tezzeret the Seeker

Lands

32x Island

1x Mishra's Factory

1x Seat of the Synod

1x Reliquary Tower

1x Halimar Depths

1x Dread Statuary

1x Darksteel Citadel

And that's what I have so far. Does anyone have any suggestions for the remaining cards, or suggestions for replacinng some of the cards with other cards?

edited 10th Feb '11 6:34:36 PM by GuyInWhite

I'm a little divided on Myr Retriever in EDH. I love them, but I find they really only shine when you can play them in pairs or more. Maybe consider a Conjurer's Bauble or a Reito Lantern instead?

OK, so here's my current infect deck.

Creatures

• Signal Pest
• 3x Necropede
• Bonehoard
• 3x Corpse Cur
• 4x Plague Stinger
• Flesh-Eater Imp
• Hand of the Praetors
• Phyrexian Vatmother
• 4x Cystbearer
• 2x Tangle Angler
• 2x Blightwidow
• Putrefax

Artifacts

• Infiltration Lens
• Trusty Machete
• Bladed Pinions
• Culling Dais
• Whispersilk Cloak

Other Spells

• 2x Giant Growth (because I don't have Vines of Vastwood)
• Wing Puncture (because I don't have Pistus Strike)
• 2x Canopy Cover
• Carrion Call
• Virulent Wound
• Doom Blade
• Spread the Sickness

Lands

• 2x Terramorphic Expanse
• 10x Swamp
• 10x Forest

And the rest of my infect-related cards:

• 3x Tainted Strike
• Flensermite
• A fifth Plague Stinger
• 3x Contagious Nim
• 2x Ichor Rats
• 2x Relic Putrescence
• 3x Blackcleave Goblin
• Another Flesh-Eater Imp
• Another four Cystbearers
• 3x Tel-Jilad Fallen
• 3x Carrion Call
• 6x Ichorclaw Myr
• Another Necropede
• Another four Corpse Curs
• 2x Grafted Exoskeleton
• Trigon of Infestation

And for proliferate:

• Thrummingbird
• 4x Steady Progress
• 2x Fuel for the Cause
• 2x Spread the Sickness
• 5x Contagion Clasp

Any suggestions? Currently I'm thinking I may have too many 4-drops.

The thing about infect is that it's really centered on the 3-4 mana range and higher, so don't worry about having lots of them, especially if they're great cards like Corpse Cur and Phyrexian Vatmother. Maybe look into playing Explore and Cultivate to get your sweet spot five mana more quickly?

It sounds like you'll need to play a slightly slower game. You'll need a lot more removal than what you have now, as you'll need lots of cheap removal against very aggressive decks like Landfall Boros, Elves, and Vampires.

You don't have them now, but look into replacing your Tangle Angler and Blightwidow with your more powerful infect four-drops like Flesh Eater Imp, Hand of the Praetors, and Phyrexian Vatmother. Tangle Angler and Blightwidow do so little compared to these creatures. Alternatively, you can replace them now with, say, Ichor Rats, a fourth Corpse Cur, Rot Wolf (if you have them, they shouldn't be too hard to get at common), or Tel Jilad Fallen. I'm particularly fond of Tel-Jilad Fallen, especially in conjunction with the Corpse Curs.

If you do end up playing a creature-heavy deck, maybe look into playing Lead the Stampede?

edited 14th Feb '11 8:55:00 AM by Fifthman

Alright, here's my completed Memnarch EDH Deck:

General

1x Memnarch

Lands

33x Island

1x Halimar Depths

1x Seat of the Synod

1x Darksteel Citidel

1x Reliquary Tower

1x Stalking Stones

Spells

1x Golem Foundry

1x Triskelion

1x Platinum Angel

1x Semblance Anvil

1x Foil

1x Faerie Mechanist

1x Trigon of Thought

1x Clockspinning

1x Conjurer's Bauble

1x Deprive

1x Clockwork Hydra

1x Mana Leak

1x Thirst for Knowledge

1x Arcbound Crusher

1x Memnite

1x Machinate

1x Frogmite

1x Power Conduit

1x Vedalken Certarch

1x Titan Forge

1x Thoughtcast

1x Energy Chamber

1x Kuldotha Forgemaster

1x Trinket Mage

1x Chimeric Mass

1x Arcbound Slith

1x Arcbound Worker

1x Artificer's Intuition

1x Runed Servitor

1x Everflowing Chalice

1x Thrummingbird

1x Voltaic Key

1x Broodstar

1x Esperzoa

1x Pentavus

1x Liquimetal Coating

1x Contagion Engine

1x Cancel

1x Master of Etherium

1x Argivian Restoration

1x Qumulox

1x Ornithopter

1x Tezzeret the Seeker

1x Arcbound Fiend

1x Contagion Clasp

1x Silver Myr

1x Arcbound Hybrid

1x Golem's Heart

1x Stoic Rebuttal

1x Sun Droplet

1x Elixer of Immortality

1x Throne of Geth

1x Steady Progress

1x Darksteel Colossus

1x Tumble Magnet

1x Steel Overseer

1x Worn Powerstone

1x Shape Anew

1x Arcbound Stinger

1x Lux Cannon

1x Razormane Masticore

Any suggestions for tweaking the deck?

Thanks. In order:

• Tangle Angler is actually a fairly useful 4-drop in my experience due to its lure ability and high toughness. I can definitely move one out for the other Flesh Eater Imp, though. And cut both Blightwidows for different beasties. As for Rot Wolf, well, what you see is what I've got.
• I don't have a great deal of cheap removal for BG. About the best I can do is grab my other Doom Blade out of my monoblack deck. I have another couple of Wing Punctures and a Plummet for green, and that's pretty much it without pulling out Flesh Allergy (which doesn't support the primary objective).
• I've got a Cultivate somewhere, so I can definitely stick it in. I don't have a Lead the Stampede, though.

Wait, I misread Tangle Angler for something else. Keep them at two, they'll break open games if you're stalled with a bunch of creatures on the field.

Out of curiosity, what did you think they were?

Giant Spiders, apparently. </idiot>

Also, I need to RTFC more often.

edited 14th Feb '11 4:57:39 PM by Fifthman

MBS has vanished from these shores just as rapidly as it came. Hopefully a few boosters will appear eventually, but it looks like that's my only shot at any infectious goodies. Still, they still have Scars stuff, and I dragged a couple of cards out of my other decks.

With that noted, here's Infect take 2.

Creatures

• 2x Signal Pest
• 2x Necropede
• 4x Plague Stinger
• Blight Mamba
• 3x Cystbearer
• Ichor Rats
• 3x Corpse Cur
• Hand of the Praetors
• Bonehoard
• 2x Flesh-Eater Imp
• 2x Tangle Angler
• Phyrexian Vatmother
• Putrefax

Artifacts

• Trusty Machete
• Bladed Pinions
• Culling Dais
• Whispersilk Cloak
• Horizon Spellbomb

Instants

• Virulent Wound
• Giant Growth
• Mirran Mettle
• 2x Doom Blade

Sorceries

• Cultivate

Enchantments

• 2x Canopy Cover

Lands

• Terra Expanse
• 11x Swamp
• 11x Forest

The "sideboard" is much the same, except that it has one more Contagious Nim and one more Tangle Angler in it.

Looks good, I'd hate to be up against that.

So, got some more Standard-legal swag to put in my Livng weapon deck. I found that its main problem was that it didn't really have any endgame finishers. Living Weapon 4.0 aims to rectify this:

Creatures

• Koth's Courier
• Spikeshot Elder
• Spiraling Duelist
• Carapace Forger
• Glissa's Courier
• Spire Serpent

Instants

• Galvanic Blast
• Burn The Impure
• 2x Pistus Strike
• Mirran Mettle
• Unnatural Predation

Artifacts

• Sphere of the Suns
• Spine of Ish Sah
• Throne of Geth
• Bladed Pinions
• 2x Piston Sledge
• Darksteel Plate
• Brass Squire
• Plague Myr
• 3x Myr Sire
• Gust Skimmer

Living Weapons

• 4x Flayer Husk
• 2x Mortarpod
• 2x Strandwalker
• 2x Skinwing
• Bonehoard

Lands

• 10x Mountains
• 5x Islands
• 9x Forest

So, Black got kicked out in favour of Blue. Nested Ghoul and Necrogen Scudder just didn't pack the kind of punch this deck needs. Spire serpent is a bit easier to get than the ghoul (not to mention a whole lot bigger), and Spiraling Duelist can shred through entire groups once metalcrafted and equipped. Piston Sledge has the power to turn just about anything into a threat, and Gust Skimmer provides some early harassment. Thoughts? Possible improvements? I'll be playing this in a local Standard tournament, so I want to be prepared.

edited 15th Feb '11 1:16:35 AM by Lovecrafter

I just built a custom scheme deck for Archenemy:

2x All in Good Time

2x Behold the Power of Destruction

2x Choose Your Champion

2x I Bask in Your Silent Awe

2x I Know All, I See All

2x My Undead Horde Awakens

2x Nature Shields Its Own

2x Nothing Can Stop Me Now

2x Only Blood Ends Your Nightmares

2x Plots That Span Centuries

Anybody have a good idea for a regular deck to go with it?

If you intend to play in Standard, these are the cards you need to plan to kill.

Jace, the Wallet Rapist: If your opponent untaps with Jace, it's highly unlikely that you'll win the game. Thrun and Hero of Oxid Ridge are cards engineered to deal with Jace, but there are other ways to deal with him.

Aggro decks like Elves, Vampires, Stoneforge/Landfall Boros, and RDW all have the advantage of being able to kill the opponent before Jace becomes an issue. If your deck can kill an opponent before turn 5, you should be okay. Just remember that Jace decks play other colors for sweepers; don't overextend into a Day of Judgment.

Primeval Titan ramp decks are not seeing as much play because the meta has become very aggro heavy, but ramp decks have a very strong matchup against Jace decks because they reach critical mass very quickly, and they typically play Summoning Trap to make sure their initial ramp stays on the board.

If you intend to play control, you will need an easy way to deal with Jace. You can Duress it out of their hand, play Jaces of your own (little Jace comes in handy here), counterspell it, or Memoricide it out of your opponent's deck. Vampire Hexmage comes in handy as well.

Titans: Do you have removal that can deal with Titans? It's bad enough that they're able to cast one, it's even worse if you let it swing at you. Frost Titan in particular is very resistant to removal, so having an all-purpose sweeper like Day of Judgment, Phyrexian Rebirth, or Black Sun's Zenith will come in handy.

Manlands, Valakut, Eldrazi Temple, Inkmoth Nexus: Slower decks need to worry about dealing with lands. If you aren't playing aggro, you will need a set of Tectonic Edges to deal with your opponent's high-power lands. Spreading Seas comes in handy here as well.

Tezzeret: Best I can think of is to bring artifact hate. Shatter, Naturalize, Divine Offering, and Slice in Twain come in handy here, especially when Tezzeret is capable of turning artifacts into 5/5 beaters.

Thanks for the tips! I'd completely forgotten about the Titans, which pose a big threat. Back to the drawing board it is, then...

Just put together some plans for an Archenemy deck:

Lands

11x Swamp

9x Mountain

4x Akoum Refuge

Creatures

3x Lightning Reaver

3x Howling Banshee

Instants

4x Breath of Malfegor

3x Volcanic Fallout

Sorceries

4x Blood Tithe

4x Earthquake

4x Flame Rift

4x Exsanguinate

3x Breath of Darigaaz

Enchantments

4x Wound Reflection

Schemes

2x All in Good Time

2x Behold the Power of Destruction

2x Plots that Span Centuries

2x Only Blood Ends You Nightmares

2x Approach my Molten Realm

2x I Delight in Your Convulsions

2x Know Naught but Fire

2x Which of you Burns Brightest?

2x The Fate of the Flammable

2x Realms Befitting my Majesty

Now, if only I had the money to buy these decks I plan instead of printing a shitload of proxies...

edited 16th Feb '11 8:35:04 AM by GuyInWhite

Since it's sweltering hot here right now, and thunder rumbles at least once a day, it's obviously time for...My Brand New Goblin Deck!

At present, the main flaw is that I only have one Goblin Chieftain, providing me with a bit of a limit to both power and speed. I'm keeping an eye out for others though. I also don't have Goblin Guide or Warren Instigator.

Creatures

• 2x Goblin Balloon Brigade
• 3x Raging Goblin
• Goblin Mountaineer
• Intimidator Initiate
• Mudbutton Clanger
• Mudbrawler Cohort
• 2x Goblin Tunneler
• Emberwilde Augur
• Bazaar Trader
• Goblin Wardriver
• Tattermunge Duo (I realise this deck is mono red, but I mainly play against a red deck anyway so forestwalk is largely useless)
• Torch Slinger
• Akki Coalflinger
• Goblin Chieftain
• Tar Pitcher
• War-Spike Changeling
• Outrage Shaman
• Voracious Dragon
• Shivan Dragon
• Steel Hellkite (look, it's a mechanical dragon, OK? I couldn't resist!)

Artifacts

• Culling Dais

Planeswalkers

• KOTH OF THE MOTHERFUCKING HAMMER (I have one, but I'm proxying with a Hoverguard Observer to keep it intact)

Instants

• Brute Force
• Lightning Bolt
• Rally the Forces

Sorceries

• Fireball
• Dragon Fodder
• 2x Act of Treason
• Jaws of Stone

Enchantments

• Volcanic Strength
• 2x Quest for the Goblin Lord
• Shiv's Embrace

Lands

• 22x Mountain

edited 1st Mar '11 12:18:36 AM by CountDorku

I can't judge this as a Constructed deck because you're probably building it from a very limited collection. Still, there are some ways you can make this better:

• 4x Lightning Bolt. You probably don't have this, but you should get it.
  • On that note, needs more removal in general. Shatters or Crush may prove to come in handy in the future, as more people try to play artifacts in this block.
• Needs more land. Too many big creatures, nowhere near enough land to support them. Get to 24 land at least if you want to have any chance of playing your dragons. (If you really want to play your dragons reliably, go into green.)
• Why do you have Bazaar Trader there? Why would you want to give any of your cards away? Cut for land.
• There's a lot of weak one-ofs that don't do much, like Goblin Mountaineer or Mudbutton Clanger. Cut some of them for land or removal.

Also, look into getting that Goblins event deck. There's quite a lot of useful stuff in that deck, like Bolts and Goblin Guides.

edited 1st Mar '11 5:05:55 PM by Fifthman

• Don't have 4x Bolt. Honestly, until the afternoon I built that deck, I didn't have 1x Bolt. At best I can use Galvanic Blast as a substitute Shock, and possibly pick up a Comet Storm. (I'd buy more Bolts, but 1: I'm not sure the shop has them, and 2: that one Bolt cost me a dollar. I'm not paying a buck for a common. I have a mythic that costs less than that, and believe me someday I'm going to build a deck with it.)
• I keep reminding myself that lands are important, and I keep going ahead with 22. I think my problem is that I'm an idiot.
• Bazaar Trader was there because of the Acts of Treason. The old "donating it to myself" trick. I'll replace that one with burn.

Also, I've had a think and I'm thinking Shiv's Embrace isn't really worth the mana. More burn!

Thanks! I'll post the edited deck later right now, and it doesn't have the Clanger. What it does have is a somewhat heavier sacrificial theme and my favourite legendary Goblin of all time.

Creatures

• Akki Avalanchers
• 2x Raging Goblin
• Intimidator Initiate
• 2x Goblin Balloon Brigade
• 2x Goblin Tunneler
• Goblin Wardriver
• Mudbrawler Cohort
• Grotag Siege-Runner
• Emberwilde Augur
• Torch Slinger
• Goblin Chariot
• Goblin Chieftain
• Akki Coalflinger
• Tattermunge Duo
• Tar Pitcher
• Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician (where one of my comments is actually at the top of the Gatherer entry, interestingly enough)
• Outrage Shaman
• Voracious Dragon
• Steel Hellkite
• Shivan Dragon

Sorceries

• Dragon Fodder
• Fireball
• 2x Spire Barrage
• Jaws of Stone

Artifacts

• Culling Dais

Enchantments

• 2x Quest for the Goblin Lord
• 2x Furnace Celebration

Instants

• Lightning Bolt
• Searing Blaze

Planeswalkers

• Koth

Lands

• 24x Mountain

edited 2nd Mar '11 8:41:14 PM by CountDorku

Whee, a pauper control list!

4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Latchkey Faerie
2 Briarberry Cohort
4 Surveilling Sprite
4 Wee Dragonauts
2 Bonesplitter
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Into the Roil
4 Preordain
3 Burst Lightning
15 Island
8 Mountain
I want to build this in paper. It'll cost me about $10 to do so, as I already own bolts and leaks. It's not that strong a deck, but it's given me a good impression so far. Still not sure on the number of Bonesplitters, or if Briarberry Cohort should even be in the deck.