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Poke holes in my race!

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Borkless from 112365365321 Since: Jan, 2011
#1: Jan 28th 2011 at 10:21:32 PM

I had this idea for a species. They borrow heavily from Battle Star Galactica and Mass Effect. A race of (quasi)sentient military robots.

BUT! Instead of turning against their masters, their makers got scared of them and tried to wipe them out. Since the machines are coded to never attack their makers, they had only once choice open to them, they fled.

Starving (low on fuel) and with no raw materials for their factory ships, they were a dying race. In an attempt to gain much needed resources, they hired themselves out as PMCs, doing other nations' dirty work in exchange for metal, fuel or supplies. (This also allows for Mechanical Evolution, as their code was updated and tech from other species were incorporated into the production line.)

There's two main “sub species” of machines:

Ships: which carry them biggest and most powerful AI cores, these are the mechanical equivalent to a Living Ship.

Drones: ~6 foot tall grunts. Their AI is capable of creative tactical decisions, as well as learning on the fly, but they rely on the ships for strategic planning. They are powered via umbilical (when on ship) batteries (only last about 24 hours, but is silent) or an internal-combustion engine (used most of the time.) Also: while they are machines, they still need spacesuits as their circuits are air-cooled.

Also, while Drones are significantly stronger then Humans, they can't run as fast (although they only get tired once they run out of fuel and shut down.) They also have human-style hands to allow them to drive commandeered vehicles and effect field repairs.

So, any critiques?

edited 28th Jan '11 10:44:09 PM by Borkless

I don't always comment, but when I do, expect me to edit the crap outta it.
colbertimposter Since: Dec, 1969
#2: Jan 29th 2011 at 8:08:27 AM

I think this is a neat spin on the familiar ~robots turning on their makers~ trope, and as such you'll get the benefits of familiarity (nostalgia and transference) without the cost of familiarity ("seen this, done that"). Go for it.

Zero0 Since: Oct, 2009
#3: Jan 29th 2011 at 8:30:42 AM

So, are the drones themselves actually sentient in any way, or is it just the ships who are actually capable of non-combat related thought?

I'm liking the sound of this. Like the guy above said, it's a nice spin on an old idea.

Borkless from 112365365321 Since: Jan, 2011
#4: Jan 29th 2011 at 4:00:11 PM

@ Zero 0 The drones are fully sentient, just not as smart as the ships. But, they are usually powered down when not in combat. Also, they don't normally have non-combat oriented code on their hard-drives, although some "diplomat" drones fulfill the purpose their name entails. (most species don't like talking with a ship)

Also, I just realized this justifies Talking Is a Free Action. The drones' and ships' conversations happen over the course of a handful of processor cycles. This might be useful for Info dumps.

Also:

1. any ideas for their main powerplant? I was thinking an internal combustion engine of some kind, but I would like to know if you can think of anything better (to fit in the verse in needs to be at-least possible with modern tech)

2. what would the best weapon for these guys be? I'm thinking either a battle rifle similar to a G3 or M14, or else a belt-fed machine-gun similar to a MG 42 or M240. I know belt-fed guns are hard to reload but would being a machine make it any better?

3. Can anyone think of any cool names for these guys? I'm terrible with names.

edited 29th Jan '11 4:16:37 PM by Borkless

I don't always comment, but when I do, expect me to edit the crap outta it.
heartlessmushroom Space hobo Since: Jan, 2010
Space hobo
#5: Jan 30th 2011 at 8:36:54 AM

If your robots were programmed to not attack theyr masters (pressumably by their masters in the first place), Why are hey suddenly afraid of them and tried to wipe them out? Aside that, your spin on the trope is interesting, I'd read you project when it's done.

You could also set it up as a generic turned against their masters race at first sight but reavealing the truth after visiting one of theship's AI or after visiting their old master's planet, which could be interesting to see why they decided to get rid of their robots.

Borkless from 112365365321 Since: Jan, 2011
#6: Jan 30th 2011 at 9:07:42 AM

Their masters turned against them because the politicians were afraid of them. Since they were developing very intelligent AI, the (none-to-bright) politicians feared they would eventually rebel, despite how much the engineers and programmers said that could never happen.

I don't always comment, but when I do, expect me to edit the crap outta it.
AnthropoRex Since: Feb, 2011
#7: Feb 2nd 2011 at 2:25:55 AM

I like your general idea, but not your choice of weapons. Since you are allowing for machine evolution, maybe you could consider your drones having weapons 'organic' to their bodies. The weaponized components could still look cool if you wanted, but you could eliminate some inefficiencies.

HungryJoe Gristknife from Under the Tree Since: Dec, 2009
Gristknife
#8: Feb 2nd 2011 at 11:22:04 AM

Why internal combustion? For a spacefaring race that seems fairly inefficent, especially since the races they encounter would use all sorts of different fuels with varying yeilds, octanes, fluidity, etc. etc.

That being said I think the take is very interesting and I'd love to see this go somewhere.

As for a name, would you want it to be one that they came up with, their creators gave them, or that they've been given by the races they deal with?

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
Borkless from 112365365321 Since: Jan, 2011
#9: Feb 2nd 2011 at 2:49:18 PM

@ Anthropo Rex: I assume you mean guns bolted to the chassis, not actual organic guns (although that would be cool.) They don't carry mounted weapons because they need to use their hands for things like repair work and driving vehicles not adapted for them. Also, an Arm Cannon would be impractical as all that ammo away from the CG would make the bot unstable. Also, hands let them use captured enemy weapons, as well as reload without special tools.

They'll probably have a few hidden weapons in the form of hidden blades, but those will be optional for maximum flexibility. I'm trying to avoid Crippling Overspecialization


@ Hungry Joe: they use Internal combustion because that's the only practical thing that exists. In my 'verse, everything is at modern level except for the FTL Drive. (It Makes Sense in Context). As for names, probably one their makers gave them. They view their makers as gods and would be hesitant to change a god-given appellation.

edited 2nd Feb '11 2:51:48 PM by Borkless

I don't always comment, but when I do, expect me to edit the crap outta it.
Borkless from 112365365321 Since: Jan, 2011
#10: Feb 3rd 2011 at 8:40:15 PM

Well, it seems I failed to do my research. I've read up on fuel cells, but i still don't really know what I'm talking about. So, as I see it...

Diesel:
Pros
-proven technology
-easy access to fuel, Diesels can burn almost anything
-lots of power per unit of fuel
-long life
Cons:
-large heat and noise signature (how quiet could a muffler get it?)
-moving parts can break
-requires a separate dynamo
-fuel stores can be flammable.
Fuel Cell
Pros:
-No moving parts
-direct conversion to electrical energy
-light weight
-no noise signature, lower heat signature?
Cons:
-fuel stored in high-pressure tanks (palladium based tanks might help this)
-hard to get access to more fuel in the field, higher logistical drain.
Anything I missed? Did i say anything stupid? Thanks.

edited 3rd Feb '11 8:42:56 PM by Borkless

I don't always comment, but when I do, expect me to edit the crap outta it.
MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#11: Feb 3rd 2011 at 9:56:50 PM

Quality of manufacture maybe, a diesel engine can get away with being at least a bit rough, a fuel cell is likely to fail if placed under such conditions could well fail.

Also, you may want to consider a backup battery (or rather, a radioisotope thermoelectric generator), which may not be powerful enough to actually get the drones around, but will allow them to remain 'conscious' for a long time. Advantage are:
* Long life
* Silent operation
* Low maintenance requirements
Disadvantages are:
* Low power output
* High thermal output
* Disposal of spent fuel
* Tight manufacturing tolerances

RT Gs aren't the only forms of atomic battery either.

edited 3rd Feb '11 10:00:00 PM by MattII

Borkless from 112365365321 Since: Jan, 2011
#12: Feb 4th 2011 at 2:52:44 PM

Cool! They already use back-up batteries (I was thinking lithium-polymer) for when stealth is of the utmost importance. Also, shutting down the power on these guys and then turning them back on doesn't damage their systems very much. (And you can always re-load a backup copy of their AI)

I don't always comment, but when I do, expect me to edit the crap outta it.
MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#13: Feb 4th 2011 at 3:39:50 PM

Yeah, but you lose their sensors while they're turned off.

Borkless from 112365365321 Since: Jan, 2011
#14: Feb 4th 2011 at 5:44:17 PM

They don't always need their sensors .when aboard ship they're usually powered down, and when riding in vehicles they draw power via umbilical. This could result it robot "mess halls," secure areas with generators and fuel stores where bots could refuel, as well as be repaired and rearmed.

EDIT: I didn't read the article on atomic batteries until now. Could one of those fit inside 6'6 ish humanoid frame and still produce enough power? (the bot needs to think, run about as fast as a human, and carry ~120 pounds of gear (some of it applique armor))

edited 4th Feb '11 5:48:10 PM by Borkless

I don't always comment, but when I do, expect me to edit the crap outta it.
MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#15: Feb 4th 2011 at 5:48:10 PM

Sensors can still be useful in the field, even if the drone is too damaged to do much else but watch.

edited 4th Feb '11 5:49:20 PM by MattII

Borkless from 112365365321 Since: Jan, 2011
#16: Feb 4th 2011 at 5:49:01 PM

Yeah, but sensors don't draw that much juice, batteries can make up the difference until the downed bot's squad mates can patch it up.

edited 4th Feb '11 5:49:57 PM by Borkless

I don't always comment, but when I do, expect me to edit the crap outta it.
HungryJoe Gristknife from Under the Tree Since: Dec, 2009
Gristknife
#17: Feb 4th 2011 at 7:47:43 PM

You could have them work like diesel subs, they just use it to top off their batteries when they need to, with the off position being the default.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.
Borkless from 112365365321 Since: Jan, 2011
#18: Feb 4th 2011 at 8:16:58 PM

Hmmm, hadn't thought of that. Although battery life would be an issue. They'd probably act more like WWII subs, running on diesels until the very last second

edited 5th Feb '11 11:41:16 AM by Borkless

I don't always comment, but when I do, expect me to edit the crap outta it.
SandJosieph Since: Dec, 2009
#19: Feb 4th 2011 at 10:00:18 PM

For some reason I read the thread title as "Poke holes in my race!" o_O

Borkless from 112365365321 Since: Jan, 2011
#20: Feb 5th 2011 at 1:13:29 PM

Ha! That's... not actually that bad of an idea. Great, yet another idea spinning around in my head

I don't always comment, but when I do, expect me to edit the crap outta it.
AnthropoRex Since: Feb, 2011
#21: Feb 15th 2011 at 6:25:23 PM

@Borkless. I just want to save you from writing something like the meka in Avatar that uses its hand to hold a knife. This is ridiculous because it makes the (unnecessary) grip of the hand the weak-point in the attack. A simple sharp edge on an arm would have worked just fine.

Borkless from 112365365321 Since: Jan, 2011
#22: Feb 16th 2011 at 4:52:32 PM

Good point. They have mounted weapons, just nothing too heavy. A small-ish (eight inch long) blade, but nothing heavy enough to throw off the balance, get in the way, or otherwise be cumbersome.

I don't always comment, but when I do, expect me to edit the crap outta it.
TBot_Alpha Since: Jul, 2009
#23: Feb 17th 2011 at 5:23:11 AM

There seems to be a strange conflict going on here. On one hand, these are sapient robots. There's gotta be some crazy hyper-tech going on already. They can, by definition, think faster than a human, and crunch numbers the likes of which a human couldn't even imagine. But on the other hand, you're saying the tech remains modern-ish, with diesel engines apparently being the most reliable and easy-to-manufacture means of locomotion.

The problem arises when you try and claim that a spacefaring civilization would have any problems manufacturing batteries and fuel cells. They can break up asteroids and comets for materials if they want, it's not like it'd be hard for a sapient AI to arrange that. Then there's how mentally powerful a spaceship's AI would have to be to fly in space in the first place. If one of these robots was left alone to experiment on a fuel cell for a day, I'm pretty sure they'd have not only familiarised themselves with it by the evening, but also devised a better battery by morning.

If they have the means to build more of themselves, there doesn't seem like there'd be anything to stop them from working on their own super-batteries. If they have nanotech manufacturing (which isn't unreasonable for a sapient robot to devise), the sky's the limit.

In short, a single sapient AI would outclass every human engineer in existence.

edited 17th Feb '11 5:25:19 AM by TBot_Alpha

Dedicated to grasping hold of threads and driving them off cliffs.
Borkless from 112365365321 Since: Jan, 2011
#24: Feb 17th 2011 at 7:18:46 PM

Good point. If said sapient AI was designed as an engineer. These bots were never programed for engineering beyond field repair and improvisation. The original intent was that massive tech upgrades would be provided by the makers. Since the makers are out of the picture, the bots are stuck with very slow advancement.

I don't always comment, but when I do, expect me to edit the crap outta it.
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