Classifying Tropes, Trivia, YMMV, Audience Reactions and Flame Bait

If a story has Multiple Endings, Happy Ending might be noteworthy as "The second route's ending". or "the True End".

Here's an interesting case - some Useful Notes pages like The Laws And Customs Of War are often listed as trope examples on works pages. Is that okay?

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

It might sign that a new trope page is needed, for how "x is shown in fiction", but maybe there wouldn't be enough examples, so it's fine as a temporary solution, I think.

What exactly constitutes a Useful Notes page? Some things on the index are tropes, like Boke and Tsukkomi Routine, some are treated like works, like all the mythology pages. Some are in a Usefull Notes namespace, some are in main. Some accompany a main article, some don't; some have examples, some don't. It's kind of confusing, since I never really paid attention to them before.

edited 1st Feb '11 3:13:08 PM by Killomatic

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

So what's our current, short-term goal?

Minor derail again, but since we list fanfics, should we maybe make a subclass of audience reactions, that are okay to list in fanfics? The shipping stuff for example is pretty much used unequivocally in most of them. Or does the in-universe clause cover those well enough?

edited 2nd Feb '11 4:56:11 AM by Killomatic

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

I agree that they should be treated as a separate category.

Fanfiction is an entire medium, and a huge number of it's tropes are also fandom reaction tropes.

It would be a pain if about every second trope on their work pages should start with the words "used in-universe"

I think we just need to trust tropers not to add fanfic-specific tropes to main articles. I mean, their usage is fairly obvious, right?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Fan Fic is just another kind of work. Treatment of it shouldn't be any different. There really isn't anything other than the shipping stuff that is regularly occurring YMMV in fanifcs, and an 'in-universe' will fit the shipping stuff just fine.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty

I was thinking of things like Everyone Is Gay or Everyone Is Bi that, by definition, only occur in fanfic.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

@Triple Elation, post 150

I think we're basically in agreement. I'm not actually sure what you're suggesting in that post. I'm suggesting that we don't have specifically designated YMMV tropes at all (since any trope's useage can be YMMV), but we use the YMMV tab as a way to stop the natter, justifying edits, edit warring, etc once they've become a problem.

The alternative is to keep the same system we had before — some tropes are listed as YMMV and go on the YMMV tab by default. But since most of the pages formerly listed as YMMV have been split off into Audience Reactions, I don't think that fits anymore.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

I'm not sure if we addressed this before, but should Sugar Wiki tropes go in YMMV or not. Things that are Just for Fun games I can understand not listing, but Crowning Music Of Awesome and the like I feel need to stay connected with the main article.

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

I believe that's the intent, but we already have dedicated namespaces for many of them, like Music, Awesome Moments, etc.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I believe "Music" is not for the trope, but for the medium.

edited 2nd Feb '11 7:04:34 AM by Killomatic

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

Everyone Is Bi is actually for both fanfic and canon shows. We don't split it into Everyone Is Bi and Cast Full Of Bi like we do for Gay characters.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

What about Draco in Leather Pants? Same deal with the Fan Fic whatnot?

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Individual fan fics are fine. General fandom is not.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Eeeeeh, Draco in Leather Pants and Ron the Death Eater both reek strongly of Audience Reaction much more than the previously-discussed tropes do. They may become tropable when a fanfic uses them, but they are not exclusive to fanfiction; they exist in Fanon at large.

That's more what I meant. They can get the in-universe tag when a fic uses them. The rest of the time, they're just fandom.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Then how are people going to know which examples go on YMMV and which don't? I'm telling you, saying "figure it out per individual example" is going to be a disaster. If you're suggesting just having a YMMV banner without "categorizing the Trope as YMMV", then we can say that "YMMV Trope" is shorthand for "Trope with a YMMV banner on it" for all I care.

edited 2nd Feb '11 6:52:42 PM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

Time for something completely different again. Should we be making Sugar Wiki and Darth Wiki pages for works, in order to list these types of Audience Reactions? I know there are some cases where this is done, like Robot Unicorn Attack or Eversion, but since they are so rare, I was under the impression we want to discourage this practice.

edited 3rd Feb '11 2:05:14 AM by Killomatic

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

I don't know about the Unicorn one, but in Eversion the Sugar Wiki and Darth Wiki thing is Just for Fun. It's not actually for listing positive/negative Audience Reactions, it's playing off of Eversion's.... Thing, that it does and is a gigantic spoiler.

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

No, Darth and sugar pages. Especially with good and bad being so subjective. I don't want multipage shipping wars.

And the Darth page for Robot Unicorn Attack is for the Darker and Edgier version of the game.

edited 3rd Feb '11 8:21:30 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Wiki Magic, same as we do everything else. Sure, there'll be some misuse, but there's some misuse for everything. It's not perfect, no, but I think it's better than the alternatives.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Wiki Magic works when pretty much any reasonable person would agree on whether or not an edit is a good idea. By definition, this is false for YMMV-ish things.

132 is the rudest number.