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blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#1026: May 22nd 2025 at 7:01:50 AM

Seeds of Foul Vines... Like Briarhearts?

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1027: May 22nd 2025 at 7:02:54 AM

[up][up]Sure, though I'd not blame her for that. She neither yeeted the meteor, nor did she leave it there.

And Vivec's known his power was wanning for literal centuries, and knew the Nerevarine Prophecies in detail. It's not like the dude didn't see this coming.

Edited by Ghilz on May 22nd 2025 at 10:05:39 AM

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#1028: May 22nd 2025 at 7:04:29 AM

Oh, I definitely don't think Azura can be blamed for it (or, if she is, then at the very least it was the lesser evil compared to the alternative), but her actions did indirectly lead to it falling.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1029: May 22nd 2025 at 7:05:42 AM

I dont even think that's true. Like I said, that rock was gonna make impact no matter what she did. Either Dagoth Ur won, Vivec died, and the rock falls, or the Nerevarine succeeds, Vivec gets kidnapped (Maybe murdered) and the rock falls.

It should also be pointed out that other than giving the Nerevarine the moon and star, she didn't really do anything either. Everything the Nerevarine does, they do of their own volition. Azura neither set them on that path, or arranged for it.

All she did is tell the Tribunal what was gonna happen, in a form of vague instructions. And as Vivec's own backdoor instructions in the 32 lessons show, you don't even need to follow the prophecy to make this happen.

Edited by Ghilz on May 22nd 2025 at 10:08:59 AM

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#1030: May 22nd 2025 at 7:09:24 AM

Did she not send the Nerevarine on their path? The game starts with her going "You're my chosen one fam" in their dreams.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1031: May 22nd 2025 at 7:10:26 AM

Sure, but the one who sends you on your path is the Emperor. You are otherwise free to ignore that dream (And it's never brought up in game after talking to St Jiub, Hallowed be his name). It's Uriel who packs orders and sends you to Caius Cosades and goes "Fam, make this dude the Nerevarine. Big U out."

Edited by Ghilz on May 22nd 2025 at 10:11:14 AM

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#1032: May 22nd 2025 at 7:16:24 AM

The reason there even can be a Nerevarine is because of Azura, no? I do think Azura knew that the defeat of Dagoth-Ur would start a chain-reaction leading to the moon falling and the devastation of Morrowind, but there's also the clear fact that it was the lesser of two evils, so it doesn't reflect too badly on her.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1033: May 22nd 2025 at 7:22:28 AM

She's the Daedra lord of Fate and Prophecy, so obviously she knew.

Is it because of her that the Nerevarine happens? That's more contentious. As the "backdoor" solution and Vivec's secret instructions show, you don't need to follow the prophecy.

What Azura did is give out clear instructions for someone to succesfully mantle Nerevar.

Now, does that mean it couldn't be done without those? Maybe? But probably not? You could luck out into doing those instructions. Shot of getting the Moon-And-Star, which is the one part she has to do. But all that does is make it easier for everyone to recognize you as Nerevarine and name you Hortrator. It doesn't actually do anything to otherwise kill Dagoth Ur.

And of course, the big elephant in the room is the Elder Scrolls themselves. We know that as far as dictating future and past events, they outperform even a Daedric Prince (See them breaking Nocturnal's curse because if you read about a past event in them, that event becomes confirmed history and does not care about your pesky curse). Uriel got the prophecy not from Azura, but from the Scrolls themselves. So if you were always meant to defeat Dagoth Ur, would the scrolls not contain that info, no matter what Azura did?

Azura for sure made it far more likely to happen

Edited by Ghilz on May 22nd 2025 at 10:26:03 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1034: May 22nd 2025 at 7:24:49 AM

Dagoth Ur absolutely needed stopping too.

If left unchecked his solipsistic delusions would have become reality. The Sharmat would have become the true Godhead. The Dream of Anu be overwritten with the Dream of Dagoth Ur.

Imagine Corprus, but everywhere.

Edited by M84 on May 22nd 2025 at 10:26:17 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#1035: May 22nd 2025 at 7:26:07 AM

Thinking about it, there's probably a pretty considerable chance that Azura tells everyone who fits the characteristics to become the Nerevarine that they're her chosen one and that's why there have been so many of them.

Edited by Resileafs on May 22nd 2025 at 10:26:27 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1036: May 22nd 2025 at 7:27:51 AM

She basically kept looking for someone who could Mantle Indoril Nerevar.

But in the end it took Uriel Septim’s divinations to find the right person for the Mantle.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1037: May 22nd 2025 at 7:29:27 AM

Its worth pointing out that by the time you get the dream, you've already completed some steps of the prophecy, by being born to uncertain parents, under a certain sign. She probably sent you the dream because you met that requirement, had just arrived in Morrowind, and Big U was sending you to do the rest of the job, so she's like "Yeah, that's my dude/dudette"

While you the player don't know why you're being sent here, she would.

She and Uriel aren't in cahoots but she's aware of him and seizing on the opportunity he's presenting.

Edited by Ghilz on May 22nd 2025 at 10:31:53 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1038: May 22nd 2025 at 7:31:26 AM

Yeah by that point the Mantling was already underway. Even if you weren’t really Nerevar reborn you were taking his role on a cosmic level.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#1039: May 22nd 2025 at 7:32:48 AM

I'm just watching this conversation and I have no what you're talking about!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1040: May 22nd 2025 at 7:33:10 AM

Morrowind bro.

It's great.

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#1041: May 22nd 2025 at 7:37:30 AM

It's also terrible. But it's great. :D

Jokes aside, it's an acquired taste. It's extremely dated, especially with its combat system, but if you can get past that, it's a very interesting and deep game.

Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#1042: May 22nd 2025 at 7:45:00 AM

[up][up][up] Debating whether the deity of Fate can change Fate, or just makes it look like she is changing Fate. And whether she's good or bad.

FWIW I wouldn't rank Azura as better than Meridia for example, who at least is fairly straightforward in her rules. And there even are some "bad" daedra that might be less damaging to sentient beings than Azura or Meridia - like Sanguine or Hermaeus Mora.

Hermaeus is pretty swell as long as you don't hide anything from him, really. And he usually only uses his powers to know more, not to cause unspeakable destruction for entertainment.

Edited by Bexlerfu on May 22nd 2025 at 4:45:10 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1043: May 22nd 2025 at 7:45:31 AM

One thing about Morrowind that I found really interesting was how deeply screwed up its society is. You really start to wonder if it is even worth saving. Though Dagoth Ur still needs to be stopped regardless since the stakes are much higher than a single province of the Empire.

Still it would explain why the Nerevarine fucked off to Akavir after a while.

Edited by M84 on May 22nd 2025 at 10:46:39 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1044: May 22nd 2025 at 7:46:26 AM

Great setting and lore, too. Lots to love in Morrowind. Probably not the best Action RPG of the Elder Scrolls series, but quite probably its best RPG.

Edited by Kayeka on May 22nd 2025 at 4:49:54 PM

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#1045: May 22nd 2025 at 7:55:53 AM

[up][up][up]Meridia supported Umaril and The Elder Scrolls Online doesn't paint the best picture of her. Azura isn't a saint, but I'd say she's the best of a bad bunch. Except maybe Sanguine, who also isn't a saint but more or less seems harmless (once again, relatively speaking, his drunken, hedonistic escapades have no doubt left lives ruined and even ended).

[up][up]That's why I think it's great to play the Nerevarine as an Argonian or a Khajiit. If you buy into the whole 'The PC is the reincarnation of Nerevar', then it's a nice dose of dramatic irony that the Dunmer hero is reincarnated as one of the main races they enslave.

Edited by king15 on May 22nd 2025 at 2:56:52 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1046: May 22nd 2025 at 8:00:37 AM

[up]Martin Septim in particular would not think kindly of Sanguine.

Pretty much all of the Daedra are bad news. These are after all the ones who refused to help create Nirn yet felt entitled to worship anyway.

Edited by M84 on May 22nd 2025 at 11:03:05 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#1047: May 22nd 2025 at 8:11:07 AM

[up][up] Azura is quite fickle and holds a grudge like few other daedra. The fact that she cursed an entire race for the actions of a few kinda speaks volumes.

I like her but I don't really think it's possible to say her behavior is morally better than "smite all undead", "gimme your knowledge" or "let's party".

Also, it's the Dunmer who say she's "good", and the other two in the same category are MF Boethiah and Mephala.

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1048: May 22nd 2025 at 8:24:56 AM

Really, the best a Deadra can be is "has interests that align with those of men and mer more often than not"

(Also, I believe the Khajiit are rather fond of Azura as well)

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1049: May 22nd 2025 at 8:26:07 AM

As I said, all of the Daedra are bad news to some degree.

For all their faults, you can understand why the Tribunal thought the Dunmer needed new gods to worship instead of the Daedra.

Edited by M84 on May 22nd 2025 at 11:26:40 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#1050: May 22nd 2025 at 8:26:57 AM

Well the Khajiit fundamentally rely on the stars and the moon for their birth cycles, so it's not surprising that the Daedric Prince who directs those concepts would be their chief deity.


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